An Israeli airstrike kills 19 members of the same family in a southern Gaza refugee camp : worldnews

[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 46 points 11 months ago

The Hamas attack on civilians does not justify the Israeli attack on civilians and vice versa. There is little comfort for the victims of these attacks when you say it was an accident as part of war.

[-] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 21 points 11 months ago

Feels more like revenge, than justice.

Poor Justice too, because we'll never know what crime that family committed to be sentenced to death. Except for being unlucky.

[-] Szymon@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago

More engrained hatred and extremism is born every day these genocidal political behemoths are allowed to continue this endless course of action.

[-] Szymon@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago

Both groups seem to be OK devolving to the lowest common denominator.

I hope the citizens can find peace and love amongst the hateful and antiquated policies being fed into their heads from politicians and culture.

[-] HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

Very hard to shake out the hatred once you have been brought up with it. People are fed with hatred from their infancy, they breathe hatred every day, they dream of hearted every night. France and Germany did this for two generations and it brought WW1. Germany and Japan did it again in the 20s and 30s and it brought WW2. Hamas, Likoud, Hezbollah and Republicans are feeding the same hatred to their members.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 14 points 11 months ago

I'm sure the ICC is keeping a close eye on what transpires during this war. Perhaps, it's too much to ask that the perpetrators of war crimes face the consequences of their decisions.

[-] Gork@lemm.ee 11 points 11 months ago

I've noticed though that these international bodies aren't really effective at handling these types of conflicts.

Was anything done about Azerbaijan invading Armenia? Nope.

League of Nations 2.0.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

Exactly, a lot of the time it just feels like the flavour of the moment. Something is better than nothing however and whataboutism isn't a valid argument against, but can be used to point out hypocrisy.

[-] sik0fewl@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

Azerbaijan didn't invade Armenia.

[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Sure they did. They invaded the part of Aremina that was literally inside Azerbaijan's borders, because Armenia seized it through conquest a few decades back after the USSR's collapse, and proceeded with a "population exchange".

Btw how did "population exchange" become popularized to use instead of ethnic cleansing? I genuinely don't know, but I've seen it alot lately.

[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I mean Azerbaijan have invaded Armenia proper in the past in skirmishes, but Armenia also invaded Azerbaijan and gained territory from it... They've also both committed genocide against each other, with the region in the news recently for Armenians being expelled/killed/leaving following Azerbaijan recapturing it only being majority Armenian due to the Azeris being expelled/killed/leaving in the 90s...

In reality it's a situation very similar to Israel/Palestine where regardless of how it started/what the "original" status of the land was, both sides are so overwhelmingly awful in their actions that there's no good guy, but of the four places mentioned only Palestine (Hamas really) has such a disdain for all people, even their own, that they stand out as worse than the others to me

[+] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -12 points 11 months ago

People use the word war crime incorrectly so often it has no meaning.

Read the article, there was no war crime. They missed their target and this family was hit.

People have lost how shitty war is for everyone. War is awful.

People also need to learn the rules of war and stop saying everything is a war crime.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 7 points 11 months ago

I think you need to read it again, there are multiple instances of war crimes reported.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -4 points 11 months ago

Can you cite which one you think is a violation?

Also cite the corresponding rule you think was violated ?

Civilians getting killed is not an automatic violation of any rules.

[-] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago

Can't speak for him, but off the top of my head....

Article 49 of the 4th Geneva convention accords:

49: Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as
deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the
territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country,
occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or
partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or
imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not
involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of
the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is
impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall
be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area
in question have ceased.

The Occupying Power undertaking such transfers or evacuations
shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper
accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that
the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene,
health, safety and nutrition, and that members of the same family
are not separated.

The Protecting Power shall be informed of any transfers and
evacuations as soon as they have taken place.
The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an
area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security
of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its
own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

I don't hate Israel, in fact I think it is in America's best interest to protect our ~~spy network~~ assets. Though, I will not stand for people making misleading statements about war crimes. We can do better.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

I don’t see how 49 has anything to do with air strikes.

49 is about moving people from an occupied area.

[-] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

I don’t see how 49 has anything to do with air strikes.

It has to do with an active warzone or areas hitherto, which Israel just declared.

Keep in mind, I am not even looking at their past, I am looking at the here and now and seeing what they are doing,

49 is about moving people from an occupied area.

Which Hamas currently.... occupies... the southern part of Israel.

Unless Israel is just fighting civilians, then we have a whole other set of war crimes.

[-] TylerDurdenJunior@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

Are going for points on mental gymnastics?

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -3 points 11 months ago

Are you going for points by adding nothing to the discussion ? Do you think you added any value by trying to throw out a worthless quip?

In what way is there a war crime? In the article they clearly show there wasn’t a war crime.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

Sure thing, here's one:

Hamas also took dozens of Israelis hostage

And the corresponding war crime is:

Article 8 - War Crimes 2. (a) (viii) Taking of hostages.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/RS-Eng.pdf

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -1 points 11 months ago

Correct.

They are also threatening to execute hostages which is also a violation.

[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 months ago

Israel isn't exactly operating with improvised explosives. Israel is one of the most well-funded militaries in the region and has enough Western guided munitions to fend off all their neighbours.

Either Western munitions are absolute garbage or Israel is going "oopsie doopsie I totally didn't see those civilians!"

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -1 points 11 months ago

Western munitions are great but not perfect.

Israel even designed special weapons just for the occupied lands.

[-] CollisionResistance@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

A good rule of thumb to remember in these situations is who are the "good" guys and who are the "baddies"

For instance, when US bombs a hospital, it is NOT a war crime. DON'T EVEN DARE to call it as such ok. 🤗🤗

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-afghanistan-msf-investigation-idUSKCN0XQ24T

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -4 points 11 months ago

It isn’t.

I think people should take some courses on war crimes. I have.

Accidentally hitting the wrong building is not a war crime. Even if that building is marked with a Red Cross.

People need to realize war is shit. It’s not a video game. People die, buildings get destroyed, and crying war crime is stupid.

We should try to avoid wars whenever it’s possible.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

Maybe you weren't paying attention on the part where taking hostages is a war crime.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

The conversation was around the Israelis. I am aware Hamas has committed war crimes. In the article I didn't see where Israel committed a war crime.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 0 points 11 months ago

My original comment never explicitly called out Israel nor Hamas, and for good reason. You're the one that claimed, and I quote, "read the article, there was no war crime". The line I quoted was pulled directly from the article.

I'm sure now you will be correcting your original claim, right?

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -1 points 11 months ago

AH you're being pedantic to be pedantic. We were talking about Israel and you wanted to pretend we were talking about Hamas.

No, I will not be adjusting anything as we were clearly talking about Israel.

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 0 points 11 months ago

No, YOU were talking about Israel. My comment was "clearly" as general as I could make it. You replied to MY original comment, the onus is on you to understand the subject of my comment.

Instead of being intellectually honest about your mixup, you're re-defining the goal posts. You challenged me to find a single part in the article that would classify as a war crime and to also provide the exact war crime committed. I did exactly that, as requested.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

So you don’t think the r bombing of the building was a war come? You think it’s was fine?

I do but let’s see if you’re consistent or just being pedantic like I think

[-] stifle867@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

Just keep moving the goal posts, that's fine. I'm not jumping through any more of your hoops. You've proven yourself as intellectually dishonest. I submitted to one of your challenges, and when I met it you just doubled down. For me, there's no point continuing this discussion after this.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -1 points 11 months ago

I didn’t move the goal post. You’re he dishonest trying to pretend you were talking about Hamas.

You don’t want to continue because you were called out and now have to state your stance which will show you’re a house of cards.

It clear I support Israel. It’s clear you don’t. That’s fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

[-] CollisionResistance@lemm.ee 0 points 11 months ago

If you are naive enough to think that a bombing a "jam-packed refugee camp" was an honest mistake, then I have a bridge to sell you, going very very cheap.

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

That is an easy way to say you never served in the military.

While movies show the military as a well-oiled machine flawless in execution, in the real world, it is functional chaos.

Mistakes happen.

[-] CollisionResistance@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Blowing up buildings and jam-packed refugee camps, knowing fully well that it'll create mass civilian casualties is a war crime. And I'd rather take the word of experts rather than a nobody over this.

Quoting from the article itself

But human rights groups have previously said that Israel’s pattern of deadly attacks on residential homes display a disregard for the lives of Palestinian civilians and argued they may amount to war crimes.

The article quotes a previous article Human Rights Watch: Israeli war crimes apparent in Gaza war

Human Rights Watch on Tuesday accused the Israeli military of carrying out attacks that “apparently amount to war crimes” during an 11-day war in May against the Hamas militant group.

The international human rights organization issued its conclusions after investigating three Israeli airstrikes that it said killed 62 Palestinian civilians. It said “there were no evident military targets in the vicinity” of the attacks.

So yeah, brush it off as "Mistakes happen" somewhere else

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

That isn’t a war crime.

Israel notified the area that war was starting, they told all civilians to flee. They use decision motions and notify the targets they will be hit.

Israel is going out of their way to avoid civilian loses and exceeds the standards of war.

Hamas is hiding in civilian areas which increases the chance of the civilian loses.

Israel isn’t at fault here. They’re trying to destroy legit military targets.

[-] furysama@mastodon.straylight.engineering 0 points 11 months ago

@wintermute_oregon mistakes don't make it not a war crime bruv

[-] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

Actually it does.

Can you cite the section of the law violated?

[-] Bread@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 months ago

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.

[-] Xariphon@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

But keep telling yourselves that the genocidal occupying force with trillions in international military funds are the victims...

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 2 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The Israeli military fired the shot just a short distance from Nasser Abu Quta’s home in the southern Gaza Strip, a precautionary measure meant to allow people to evacuate before airstrikes.

Abu Quta, 57, thought he and his extended family would be safe some hundred meters (yards) away from the house that was alerted to the pending strike.

The airstrike in Rafah, a southern town on the border with Egypt, came as Israeli forces intensified their bombardment of targets in the Gaza Strip following a big, multi-front attack by Hamas militants Saturday that had killed over 700 people in Israel by Sunday night.

It also points to its adversaries’ practice of embedding militants in civilian areas throughout the impoverished coastal enclave of 2.3 million people, which is under a under a severe land, air and sea blockade by Israel and Egypt.

But human rights groups have previously said that Israel’s pattern of deadly attacks on residential homes display a disregard for the lives of Palestinian civilians and argued they may amount to war crimes.

Abu Quta was gripped by grief Sunday as he prepared for the rush of burials with his two dozen other surviving relatives, including wounded children and grandchildren.

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