this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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I's heard news that BlueSky has been growing a lot as Xitter becomes worse and worse, but why do people seem to prefer BlueSky? This confuses me because BlueSky does not have any federalization technologies built into it, meaning it's just another centralized platform, and thus vulnerable to the same things that make modern social media so horrible.

And so, in the hopes of having a better understanding, I've come here to ask what problems Mastodon has that keep people from migrating to it and what is BlueSky doing so right that it attracts so many people.

This question is directed to those who have used all three platforms, although others are free to put out their own thoughts.

(To be clear, I've never used Xitter, BlueSky or Mastodon. I'm asking specifically so that I don't have to make an account on each to find out by myself.)


Edit:

Edit2: (changed the wording a bit on the last part of point 1 to make my point clearer.)

From reading the comments, here are what seems to be the main reasons:

  1. Federation is hard

The concept of federation seems to be harder to grasp than tech people expected. As one user pointed out, tech literacy is much less prevalent than tech folk might expect.

On Mastodon, you must pick an instance, for some weird "federation" tech reason, whatever that means; and thanks to that "federation" there are some post you cannot see (due to defederalization). To someone who barely understands what a server is, the complex network of federalization is to much to bare.

BlueSky, on the other hand, is simple: just go to this website, creating an account and Ta Da! Done! No need to understand anything else.

~~The federalized nature of Mastodon seems to be its biggest flaw.~~

The unfamiliar and more complex nature of Mastodon's federalization technology seems to be its biggest obstacle towards achieving mass adoption.

  1. No Algorithm

Mastodon has no algorithm to surface relevant posts, it is just a chronological timeline. Although some prefer this, others don't and would rather have an algorithm serving them good quality post instead of spending 10h+ curating a subscription feed.

  1. UI and UX

People say that Mastodon (and Lemmy) have HORRIBLE UX, which will surely drive many away from Mastodon. Also, some pointed out that BlueSky's overall design more closely follows that of Twitter, so BlueSky quite literally looks more like pre-Musk Xitter.

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[–] 4grams@lemmy.world 0 points 28 minutes ago

same reason we just elected donald fucking trump. people will always take the easy option that makes them feel good.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 3 points 42 minutes ago (1 children)

Instead of comparing these smaller platforms together to find out why one is better or not people should be focusing on why xitter and Facebook are still two of the most popular forms of social media.

[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 1 points 4 minutes ago

Network effects, boomers being unable to figure out how to switch

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 3 points 1 hour ago

Most people don't know much, and don't care that they don't know much. Half of US adults can't read at a 6th grade level. They don't care about and probably do not understand complex topics.

That's it. They just want cat gifs, and that's the end of the thought.

I knew someone who was smart and successful and politically aware. She didn't care about any of this. She was tired from work and just wanted the familiar ease or twitter. Trying to figure out which server to sign up for and finding content was too much work.

A lot of people have executive dysfunction. Making a choice is hard.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 5 points 1 hour ago

Bluesky has brand recognition (founded by the same dude as Twitter), more people and "feels like twitter", in the sense of what you see, more than mastodon. Also, news outlets seem to be migrating there.

Mastodon (and pleroma, misskey, etc) is seen as a place for weirdos and techies, with "nothing interesting going on". Several people mentioned this already one way or another, but that most servers/instances are "specific" about whatever means that people will feel that they might miss out on something by choosing the wrong server.

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

It’s more difficult to run government psyops on mastodon.

[–] lorty@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago

Because they miss the algorithm

[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 8 points 4 hours ago

Easy.

  1. No one outside of the fediverse bubble gives a fuck about federation. It solves a problem no one has, and offers no real solutions to problems users have.

  2. Mastodon offers nothing on the Twitter experience outside of "but it's federated"

[–] SaltyLemon66@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Bro do you really think common people know all about this open source interconnected stuff. Get out of your linux bubble

[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 1 points 3 hours ago

Right, I'm super pro open source but most normal people don't give a shit. Sure I think those people are stupid, but it doesn't change reality.

[–] Brodysseus@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Mainstream tech adoption needs a neat clean wrapper imo. I think that's the biggest missing piece to fediverse, people want pretty, simple, plug and play.

If a wrapper like that could be put on top of/combined with all the good qualities that the fediverse offers, I think it would create optimal conditions for slow adoption.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Agreed. There should have been a default place to sign up from the beginning. Leaning on federation as a feature is something very few people care about until they really care about it. The mass adopter just looks at where their favourite celebrity or talking head is and then move there.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

It's the raison d'etre. Saying "don't federate" is like saying "don't put images and rich hyperlinking on the WWW, just make it like Gopher." If you don't want to federate, don't. But saying that it was a bad move for ActivityPub is just nonsensical.

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 1 points 18 minutes ago

I’m not saying don’t federate. I’m saying don’t talk about that as the primary feature when you’re enticing people to sign up to it.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago

BlueSky doesnt club you with nonstop Linux nerds

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 27 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Mastodon being federated is absolutely not a flaw. This is how the internet was meant to work in the first place. The fact that people got used to using centralized platforms is an aberration and this needs to be actively fought against.

[–] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I should have been more clear. I meant β€œThe federalized nature of Mastodon seems to be its biggest obstacle to it achieving mass adoption”.

The post was about why Mastodon isn’t receiving as many user as BlueSky, or in other words, why it isn’t achieving mass adoption. It was under this context that I chose to use the word β€œflaw”, as in, flaw towards reaching mass adoption.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

I don't think there's a lot of evidence that federation is a significant obstacle in practice. Email is a great example of a federated platform that even the least tech literate people are able to use just fine. It could be argued that Mastodon onboarding process could be smoother, but that's not an inherent problem with it being federated.

In my view, the simplest answer is that BlueSky has much better marketing because it has a ton of money behind it and it's been promoted by Dorsey whom people knew from Twitter. So, when people started abandoning Twitter, they naturally went to the next platform he was promoting.

I'd also argue that there is a big advantage to having smaller communities of users that focus on specific topics of interest and can federate with each other. In my experience, this creates more engaging and friendlier environment than having all the users on the same server. Growth for the sake of growth is largely meaningless.

[–] Floon@lemmy.ml 71 points 22 hours ago (12 children)

You have to pick a Mastodon server, before you know anything about anything. The acquisition funnel probably drops 90% of the people checking it out right there.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

You have to pick a microblogging service. What's the difference? Truth Social is just a mastodon instance, but it's commercial and it has marketing. That's all that's "missing" from any other fediverse instance, and thank fucking god.

[–] ILikeTraaaains@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

This, when I decided to join Mastodon I was prompted to choose a server and had to research which one should join and understand how it works.

It is called UX friction and is well studied in sign up and checkout processes, the more steps the user has to perform the more likely it abandons it.

[–] Blazingtransfem98@discuss.online 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Just pick one, you're thinking too hard. I just picked one that's open because I didn't want to write an essay about myself to prove my worth and get someone to accept me, because I know that there isn't any reason why anyone would accept me over someone else (I'm a nobody). I hate the idea of someone else having to review my worth before being allowed to sign up, what a disgusting concept. "Oh it's to stop spam πŸ€“" All the other sites have been dealing with Spam good enough without asking me to prove my worth to them, maybe the Fediverse should take some pointers from the big boys at Big tech, they seem to be doing better than you are when it comes to this.

Eww no, I definitely don't want them to take any pointers from big tech. Their anti-spam methods are way too restrictive and invasive to your privacy. I don't want to give my phone number to websites just to sign up. And I cannot even view Youtube videos or Instagram posts because they are blocking the IPv6 address of my 6in4 tunnel which I need because my ISP doesn't have IPv6 yet. I have to sign in to "confirm you are not a bot".

[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Felt the same about Lemmy when I signed up.

[–] Aeri@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The only reason I actually wound up signing up on Lemmy is that there is one "main" instance by appearance, and it lets you participate in others(?). (Lemmy.world)

You don't need to know any of the more esoteric stuff to get going.

[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Aeri@lemmy.world 7 points 13 hours ago (2 children)
[–] Blazingtransfem98@discuss.online -1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Just pick an open one, that's the easiest choice. No essays, no worrying about being denied, easy.

[–] FoD@startrek.website 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

You've stated this at least twice in this thread. People aren't like that, just in general. Heck, I understood it and still had trouble picking a server for Lemmy and mastadon.

Do I want a single topic or domain to define me? Will a small server have popular posts? Will it have popular people? I can't find this popular account because I'm typing in username instead of user+domain.

I created and deleted at least 5 before I gave up and just picked one. Is that what most people would do?

I don't think you're wrong, but I think you are not putting yourself in the shoes of most users who want to follow a celebrity or a train station or space agency and can't even find their account.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

There are at least three viable commercial microblogging sites right now. So you already have all these problems, without even considering the Fediverse. The Fediverse is the SOLUTION to these problems, not the cause.

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[–] butsbutts@lemmy.ml 10 points 16 hours ago

the discovery on bsky is pretty nice, i dont see an equivalent on my masto instance

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 171 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (18 children)

Because the mastodon evangelists are horrible.

Back when there was any question of what platform to migrate to? Threads and bluesky were "Get an invite and make an account"

Mastodon was people insisting that EVERYONE needed to understand what federation is and the underlying philosophy. When really they should have just said "Sign up for one of these instances. It is like email where it doesn't really matter what provider you have". Countless times I tried to explain to folk on a message board or discord and would say "Just make an account on one of these four or five instances". And, like clockwork, someone would "well ackshually" me and insist that people can't use Mastodon without understanding the fundamental concept of federation and how picking the right instance is important and people can just delete and remake their accounts until they are satisfied.

So when it was time for the big influencers to move? They went to where people were already congregating and where they didn't need to host an educational seminar to tell someone how to make an account.

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[–] Alice@beehaw.org 14 points 20 hours ago

Personal answer: I draw art for a stupidly niche internet community. I'm a less popular artist so I go wear the community already is. I found one other artist on Mastodon and several on Bluesky.

[–] ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 66 points 1 day ago (1 children)

People expecting a new Twitter when switching to Mastodon were met with weird behavior and nerds who told them the awful search function or weird comment count is working correctly because that's how federation works. Well if that's the case then federation is shit.

[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 54 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is unfortunately the world of open-source.

  1. Nerd tells you to use the open-source thing.
  2. Non-technical tries it and asks questions
  3. Nerd proclaims it's not a real problem/your fault/not applicable/fix it yourself
  4. Some company takes that open-source version or idea, makes it easier for end users and monetize it
  5. Nerd gets angry and repeats step 1

Source: I am nerd and I contribute to open-source.

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