MadgePickles

that's the point of the post. ND folks tend to be bothered by this phenomenon. It's not that we don't already understand what you're saying. Many have commented here saying what you've just said, and like, yeah 100% and that's the issue. We get that it's a cultural norm that no one actually wants a real answer to.

But autistic folks have a brain that is wired to take things at face value. We take things literally. We struggle to ignore the literal meanings of words and feel compelled to respond with our true response to that literal interpretation. We don't want to live constantly replacing the literal meaning of words with the NT meaning. This post is one example of the seemingly constant game of NT society that does not mean the words that they say. We are tired! Say what you mean! And stop treating us like we don't get it. We fucking get it. And we think it's fucking stupid and don't want to play.

Sorry. This post keeps getting me in trouble bc I get riled up. I'm not yelling at * you * I'm just yelling to the sky with my fist shaking in the air.

I apologize for my previous comment. It felt like you might be trolling and refusing to listen to explanations given to you by saying the same thing

We all know what to say. Since you didn't understand anything I just said I'm tapping out. Please don't comment in here again until you've taken more time to read and listen and observe.

Yeah and they might not directly respond to you negatively in that moment but they will ABSOLUTELY talk shit about you to their friends about how weird you are for "going off about something" or "going on and on about nothing, I was just like wrap it up lol! 🙄" And then you're the weirdo who talks to much and people avoid you and even actively disrespect you

And they will do this in front of you about others so we learn very early on that you have to lie and not speak too much or too long or too passionately because some people are like this and will talk shit about you and you never know who is going to be a real person to you or who is going to be a fake person who will talk about you behind your back so you end up just playing the social protocol game like everyone else but inside you're like "this fucking sucks I hate this stupid fucking Game, No one actually cares about the answer, I wish we could just not talk to anyone unless we actually wanted to"

Yes we understand that but the point is that ND folks don't automatically know which version is appropriate. Our brains tend to go through an algorithm manually each time, where NT people are much more automatic like you're suggesting. It's like if someone with executive function issues like in ADHD and autism told you they struggle to remember things and you tell them to "Just write it down" or "just put it in a calendar 😀" as if this is some kind of new trick they haven't thought of. This is one of hundreds of daily examples where ND people have to manually go through the mental list of appropriate social protocol that for NT is just somehow magically instinctual.

The point of this post is to highlight one of the many ways that things are more difficult, challenging, exhausting, annoying, frustrating for ND people. This post was made in the autism community to commiserate with other ND people and discuss amongst ourselves, not to educate NT people.

But since I am procrastinating at work and have the spoons, I'll take a stab at helping you understand. But I would appreciate if you would recognize the imposition you make coming in asking to be educated.

Imagine if for every thing you did all day you couldn't remember how to do it or even what to do when and instead had to manually pull up a check list of steps to take to accomplish that thing, but also the pencil you used to write the list has been smudged so you can't really read everything on the list, and when you wrote the list you misunderstood the instructions so the check list is unreliably correct. And the check list has sub points so if this then that, else this other thing. So every thing you need to do every day of your life instead of being automatically pulled up subconsciously by your brain and just done, you had to go through this list and figure out each step new each time.

For ND people, to varying extents, this is how we live for real. And it adds up in impact, but we don't get a break. And when you're already overwhelmed and exhausted, each time you have to pull up the checklist and figure out what to do you get worse at it. And it's stressful and embarrassing to have to check the list each time, especially because often times you mess it up because you can't read every line clearly or you wrote it down wrong last time.

There's no solution, there's no tips or tricks to help. There's no medication to fix this problem or skills we can learn to make this problem go away. It's how our brains are wired. We would rather live differently. But we live in societies that have chosen not to educate themselves about different neurotypes and refuse to accommodate any differences.

Instead the "weird" guy at work who is too quiet but then goes off on a coworker because they didn't follow some stated rule off the workplace, that everyone knows don't actually matter even though it's never been said out loud, and why does he have such a stick up his ass, what a loser let's be mean to him now because he's obviously not deserving of our understanding or respect for being such a weirdo.

Or that coworker who wears headphones at her desk and is always calling out sick from work. I heard she asked to work from home, who does she think she is? how lazy can you get amirite? Something about being distracted by noise and The overhead lighting, she needs to suck it up! We all get by just fine, why can't she? And we like chatting with each other over the cubicle walls, she needs to loosen up.

Agreed. I never internally feel compelled to participate in the social protocol. If I feel compelled to talk to someone about something, I usually just go to to them and maybe say hi! And then dive right in to the thing I'm thinking about. Externally compelled, yes, I do feel that. I was practicing today at the store to not ask the cashier how they are. It felt weird but not actually bad. I just smiled mildly and looked them in the eyes once or twice. And then at the end just said thank you, have a nice day. They smiled too so I hope they were happy to not have to play the game.

My favorite example of how correct this is is how conversations often go with my friends I haven't spoken to in awhile. We will perform the cursory social protocol "hey how are you" "good how are you?" "Good thanks, what's new with you?" "Not much, you?" "Not much" ... And then we often go back to, how have you been? Which is the signal that we've transitioned into the real question seeking the real conversation. Even though it's kind of all the same question in different forms.

❤️

What I think I have determined people are doing with small talk is that they feel obligated to talk to people even if they have nothing to say. So there are these cultural scripts of discussion topics that are considered standard and appropriate. They aren't particularly interested in the other person, just in fulfilling the cultural script. So as long as you perform your part in the script they are happy to be seen engaging with another human doing the appropriate motions.

Haha yeah in retail interactions I don't even answer, I just reply with "how are you" it always makes me laugh how absurd social etiquette can be

"Hi how are you?" "😌 How are you?"

😂¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Since I think no one will see my comment at the bottom of the OP im going to reply it here as I think it's relevant to your content.

For me, in addition to this, more specifically it's the energy to pull up that info and analyze how I am. Like I don't know the answer to that question and that's why it's so annoying. Now I need to analyze my day, decide what parts mean what to me and weigh the average basically, and then decide if that's appropriate to share/if the person really wants to hear the truth of that, then pull up my files of pre-prepared phrases for the question that fits most closely with the truth since not answering truthfully is close to impossible for me.

Relationships are really hard. I'm impressed you got to the marriage part... I've never gotten that far. Almost once. I felt similarly when that relationship ended. I think the journey to truly understanding yourself is the key to being able to have relationships that work well and are fulfilling. I hope one day you will view that relationship ending as a blessing, as I now view that one for me...I think about if my ex hadn't been brave enough to be honest about our incompatibility (which I also felt but was too rigid to acknowledge fully)...I might have been stuck in that relationship for years longer not fully able to be myself and neither of us truly able to be as happy as we deserve. It took that pain for me to begin the journey that I'm on now, and honestly, I'm truly ok with the idea of never getting married or even having a romantic relationship "last forever". Letting go of that need has given me freedom to explore all my relationships from a different perspective. Anyway, sorry you probably don't want to read all this, I'm waxing philosophical.