this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2024

160 points (99.4% liked)

World News

39367 readers

2168 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

quinten@lemmy.world

NewsAutoMod@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

lemmyAtom@lemmy.world

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world

160

Dutch population must stay below 20 million, ministers say (www.dutchnews.nl)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

30 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

The Dutch government is considering measures to cap the Netherlands’ population at 20 million by 2050, responding to a demographic commission’s recommendation.

Currently at 18 million, the population’s growth raises concerns about pressures on housing, healthcare, and education.

Immigration minister Marjolein Faber and social affairs minister Eddy van Hijum emphasized stricter asylum limits and more targeted migration policies, with further research underway.

Economists warn that an aging population might necessitate increased foreign labor or domestic reforms, as 3 million extra workers by 2040 is deemed unfeasible.

all 32 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 59 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

That's just looking for an excuse to close borders to keep migrants out. It's a right winger saying this.

The fertility rate in the Netherlands is 1.49 now, way below replacement rate, so the usual "we have to stop people from having kids" is done. Mission successful. Congratulations.

What they usually don't say is who's going to keep production high and do the work that's needed if you don't have enough kids to replace workers retiring and keep all the migrants out. Stop people from retiring and stop trying to grow the economy I guess.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The thought tends to go I) internal birth rates are failing because the cost of raising a family is too high ii) part of that cost is driven by high accommodation costs and downward pressure on wages iii) both of these are alleviated if immigration is restricted

I've no idea if that would actually work, but the logic makes some sense (obvious flaw being if you restrict immigration you lose workers now but internal births take a couple of decades to compensate)

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Looking at Japan, China and Korea, countries with falling birth rate and strict immigration policies, it seems that the expected higher wages and increased births never materialize. The remaining workers are just squeezed harder so the economy can continue to function and grow, what results in people having less children because they have to work so much, and it ends up in a downward spiral.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

True

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

it is also a genius strategy for a country that relies heavily on trade, having two of the largest ports of Europe, to close itself off from the rest of Europe.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 38 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

... Immigration minister Marjolein Faber ...

Some time ago she announced that there would be checks at the borders

She was asked to elaborate further

She responded with "the checks will be at the borders"

When asked to elaborate further, she answered at the borders with Germany and Belgium (no shit, they're literally the only countries bordering the Netherlands)

She also said they were going to place billboards in front of places were asylum seekers were staying that would say "we're working on your return", "just like I saw in Denmark". Except she never saw that anywhere, and it would just be cruel and pointless.

So far, very little things have actually passed through parlement despite them having the majority in the "2e kamer".

[–] SMillerNL@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Technically it also borders France by means of Saint Martin.

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

I think that's technically the kingdom of the Netherlands.

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If we started building houses instead of supporting export farmers, there wouldn't be an issue. We can't build due to EU emission regulations and farmers refuse to do anything to reduce any. And we let them. Because, we care more about their income then we care about a roof over our head, apparently. 85% Dutch farmers produce is export. Instead of capping the population, we should ditch the right wing government, restrict farmers and start building houses. Instead of fixing the problems we have, the government is fueling them while at the same time creating loads more.

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Yeah that's all need and dandy but have you ever thought about this:

"more money now! MORE MONEY NOW! NOW NOW NOW NOW!"

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, but only for the rich and mega corps of course. At the cost of the peasants.

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If their population were to exceed 20 million, would that actually be a problem or this just thinly-veiled anti-immigration fear-mongering?

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The population would be too heavy and sink the country

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

then it would also create a singularity and destroy the world as we know it

[–] lemon@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In anticipation of this I propose both Belgium and Denmark start building a wall along the border and revise their building codes so that all doorways must be made inconveniently low.

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I already often hit my head on Belgian doorways so they don't have to change much haha! Why Denmark though, The Netherlands borders Belgium and Germany, and technically France (on Saint Martin).

[–] lemon@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Why Denmark

So, according to wikipedia there is a small shared border.

Real answer though: I’m an idiot. I remembered driving from Belgium to Denmark through the Netherlands and completely forgot passing through Germany along the way.

Still think those Danes should consider a wall.

[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

So, according to wikipedia there is a small shared border.

Source? Unable to find anything.

I don't blame you for not remembering Germany. Netherlands: Constant traffic jam. Germany: 230km/h, Denmark in a few hours without a stop 👌Also, northern Germany is boring AF

Walls are dumb though. Doesn't work.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 9 points 2 weeks ago

https://www.populationpyramid.net/netherlands/2040/

As things stand, the UN expects the population to peak at about 19 million before entering decline, so that should be a pretty easy goal.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Wow I guess the entire world isn't run by assholes and idiots.

EDIT: Nah their plan sucks ass.

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This is largely coming from the right-wing anti-immigrants government. They definitely are idiots, and some are assholes too.

There are sensible reasons to want this. They don't want this for those reasons.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yeah I just gave it a read now that I had a moment, and it appears they have absolutely no plans on actually limiting overall population growth and instead merely wish to severely limit accepting people from outside despite the obvious consequences.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 weeks ago

...or else