this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
178 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

37747 readers
220 users here now

A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.

Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Subcommunities on Beehaw:


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Archive.org link

Some key excerpts:

Since Elon Musk bought Twitter in 2022 and subsequently turned it into X, disaffected users have talked about leaving once and for all

For the most part, X has held up as the closest thing to a central platform for political and cultural discourse.

After Trump’s election victory, more people appear to have gotten serious about leaving. According to Similarweb, a social-media analytics company, the week after the election corresponded with the biggest spike in account deactivations on X since Musk’s takeover of the site. Many of these users have fled to Bluesky: The Twitter-like microblogging platform has added about 10 million new accounts since October.

In a sense, this is a victory for conservatives: As the left flees and X loses broader relevance, it becomes a more overtly right-wing site. But the right needs liberals on X.

As each wave departs X, the site gradually becomes less valuable to those who stay, prompting a cycle that slowly but surely diminishes X’s relevance.

Of course, if X becomes more explicitly right wing, it will be a far bigger conservative echo chamber than either Gab or Truth Social.

Still, the right successfully completing a Gab-ification of X doesn’t mean that moderates and everyone to the left of them would have to live on a platform dominated by the right and mainline conservative perspectives. It would just mean that even more people with moderate and liberal sympathies will get disgusted and leave the platform, and that the right will lose the ability to shape wider discourse.

The conservative activist Christopher Rufo, who has successfully seeded moral panics around critical race theory and DEI hiring practices, has directly pointed to X as a tool that has let him reach a general audience.

This utility becomes diminished when most of the people looking at X are just other right-wingers who already agree with them. The fringier, vanguard segments of the online right seem to understand this and are trying to follow the libs to Bluesky.

Liberals and the left do not need the right to be online in the way that the right needs liberals and the left. The nature of reactionary politics demands constant confrontations—literal reactions—to the left. People like Rufo would have a substantially harder time trying to influence opinions on a platform without liberals. “Triggering the libs” sounds like a joke, but it is often essential for segments of the right. This explains the popularity of some X accounts with millions of followers, such as Libs of TikTok, whose purpose is to troll liberals.

The more liberals leave X, the less value it offers to the right, both in terms of cultural relevance and in opportunities for trolling.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old

What a bunch of garbage. The left doesn't need the right, but the right needs the left.....for trolling! Twitter is just as bad or good as it's always been. I use it once or twice a week. But my political views do not dictate every aspect of my life.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 128 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

This ties into the age-old debate about platforming bigotry in the name of free speech. Bigots don't care that much about talking with like-minded people — they want to subject others to their beliefs and to feel as though they are a righteous majority. Without their hapless victims they become like a bully standing alone in the schoolyard, impotently yearning for somebody to punch down on.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 56 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Very good callout. It's the same reason why they're bigots - they have to feel bigger than someone. They always have to feel superior in every way. There's a reason that immigrants and "the other" are always demonized and belittled by them, and it's because they have to feel bigger than them. If they didn't well, let's look at where the majority of them actually fall on the societal ladder. The bottom. The vast majority of them are on the bottom rung of the societal ladder. Not having the others to make fun of/belittle/feel superior to would cause them to actually realize where they are and how much they've been screwed in life, and I think that actually terrifies them.

Liberals just actualized and realized where most people are in society. I think the vast majority of conservatives are just manifesting pure denial.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 41 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

If they didn’t well, let’s look at where the majority of them actually fall on the societal ladder. The bottom.

...but that's not true. The evidence bore out that Trump voters were largely white middle class. The kind of people who would have a big stupid truck, a boat, a generator, and any other number of things that take fuel, which is why they care so stupid fuck much about the price of gas. (Not enough to do anything like use less gas of course, because that's not FREEDOM)

They were white uneducated middle class, but middle class nonetheless. Middle managers and "small business" owners.

They already do have power over other people, and they like it that way. What they're fighting against is anyone who wants to take away from their fake meritocracy where they can continue to control and abuse the lives of the people who are under their thumbs in the workplace. It's why they hate the poor. It's why they hate academia and intellectuals. It's why they hate democracy, because they're allowed to be a petty dictator in the feifdom of whatever shithole business they work at/own.

The biggest reason Office Space is a fantasy is because the Bobs do their job and remove the actual waste in the company. That almost never happens in real life. In real life Lumberg and all the other bosses would be safe and every low level employee would get the shaft. Trump voters are Lumberg and the other middle managers who take great joy in micromanaging. It's half the reason they want people back in the office, too (the other half the reason being a stealth layoff). They don't actually care about efficiency, it's about control.

Let's stop pretending that all Trump voters are uneducated yokels. They're uneducated and they're yokels, but they're more than that. They're every shitty fucking boss you've ever had, which is why Elon Musk walks amongst them. We don't need to make excuses for these people who are sorry excuses anyway.

[–] Glide@lemmy.ca 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They already do have power over other people, and they like it that way. What they're fighting against is anyone who wants to take away from their fake meritocracy where they can continue to control and abuse the lives of the people who are under their thumbs in the workplace.

This is the part that needs to get repeated over, and over again. What we're fighting against is a group that wants to maintain the status quo because it advantages them. Nothing more, nothing less. If we want to win, we need them to see that cooperation is in their greater interest. Unfortunately, the left-most available political parties have failed to show them that time and time again, so they're turning the other direction.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 1 points 2 days ago

Had us in the first half, not gonna lie...

[–] zephorah@lemm.ee 24 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There’s a reason Proud Boys and southern Oregon neo nazis show up to large Portland OR protests. The rationale is no different than what The Atlantic discusses here, even the context is the same, only shifted away from the keyboard.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 21 points 3 days ago (2 children)
For the most part, X has held up as the closest thing to a central platform for political and cultural discourse.

--

Whoever told you that is a god damn liar.

[–] oyo@lemm.ee 37 points 3 days ago

Unfortunately it's true, whether you like it or not. The amount of times one random radical asshat saying something outrageous turns into a major outlet "people-are-saying" news article is infuriating.

[–] li10@feddit.uk 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s kinda correct in that it’s full of right wingers and also lefties, although the scales have been quickly shifting.

Genuine question though, what social media platform is better at being central?

If you say Lemmy I’m gonna laugh myself into a coma 😆

[–] yozul@beehaw.org 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Twitter has always had an entire order of magnitude less users than other social media platforms like Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok. Heck, it's barely bigger than Reddit. I've honestly never understood why anyone has ever paid any attention to that cesspool.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Because among the users it does have are some of the most influential people in the world.

Like, the US Senate's pretty small, too, but people from the world over have to pay attention to its members.

[–] yozul@beehaw.org 1 points 1 day ago

Meh. Those people all have Facebook accounts too. It can't just be that.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 64 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (8 children)

The right has an abuse problem. They don't want to understand consent.

They see power as a means to an end. Is it a surprise they support rape when rape is about power?

Abusers never see themselves at fault and some will follow their abused victims to the ends of the earth to be able to pile on more abuse that they see as deserved. They aren't going to stop and self-reflect on this behavior. They will either become bored or they will double down and do whatever they can to continue harassing and abusing those who are different than themselves.

They will DARVO us until the very end. This is how it has always been with those who dole out abuse.

[–] Visikde@beehaw.org 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

When the Ends Justify the Means
Anything is Possible

[–] zephorah@lemm.ee 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I really do worry about Trumps 1A speech. He may very well go after Blue Sky in a the ways he promised, under the premise of 1A. Now these same bullies have the President in their corner, possibly wielding the DOJ on it.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

He may very well go after Blue Sky in a the ways he promised, under the premise of 1A.


Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

― Jean-Paul Sartre

They know they're abusing the idea of free speech to control others' speech and they don't really care how we feel about it.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 3 days ago (4 children)

On one hand great, on the other hand it would be great of Mastadon was the Twitter replacement instead of another proprietary non-fediverse service.

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 26 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It won't be for a few reasons:

  • Most of it is explicitly anti-commercial in the sense that most users want to get to know other users not just their work

  • Folks keep introducing it in a way that is difficult for new users to understand

  • Having said that federation can be difficult to understand if you aren't seeing others and don't get why

  • There are no algorithms, full text search or indexing which most users from commercial social media want, but we don't for privacy and anti-commercial reasons.

  • Quite a bit of mastodon cares more about sustainability and community than upping their numbers so most of the non spammy, well moderated servers have registrations closed or reviewed (or whatever it is called) and most people might find that difficult to deal with.

[–] realitista@lemm.ee 20 points 3 days ago (10 children)

I use both and Mastodon is missing a lot of the quality of life features of Bluesky.

  • Good user verification
  • Add lists
  • Block lists
  • Subscribable topic feeds
  • Configurable algorithms

These things make Bluesky very easy to get started with and more powerful even than Xitter was. It's simply a better product if you have any requirements other than federation.

I wish it were otherwise, but that's just the way it is.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Tyranica moderation, meaning onerous decision of which instance you join will restrict the range of your permitted opinions. And lastly, no real way to migrate your account without damaging your relationships and reputation. Again making the instance decision very important.

This combined with infective content discovery means mastodon will remain a niche nerdtoy clubhouse

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It'll stop being 'tyranica' when users stop being racist etc and harassing others, until then the good instances will keep banning and blocking those that won't do anything about it.

Also, spam is a problem on open instances.

Edit: How do you do 'content discovery' without violating people's consent or opening them up to harrasment?

Mastodon, at least from where I look is doing fine and I couldn't be happier with the moderation or community I have found there, most of them not at all tech obsessives.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 41 points 3 days ago (2 children)

All of these stories I feel the same way: moving to another centralized privately owned platform is stupid.

[–] LukeZaz@beehaw.org 33 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Eh, I'll take it. Bluesky's learned some lessons from the past, for what it's worth. It has more than a few features that make the network lock-in less intense, so while I fully expect it to enshittify, I do think it'll be less severe of an affair than it was for Twitter.

What I'm more upset about is Threads. I can't think of anything redeeming about that place.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Bluesky is supposedly working on decentralisation, but yeah, I agree, especially since Mastodon is already there. Normies are just somehow very turned off by too much Linux talk, even though free software is part of the answer to keeping our society free and stopping monopolies from forming.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Even if bluesky somehow finishes decentralization its still fundamentally incompatible with the fediverse. In addition I doubt that itll become truly open source.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] UrLogicFails@beehaw.org 49 points 3 days ago (7 children)

It seems like Twitter may have passed the thermocline and now seems to be hemorrhaging left leaning users.

What I found interesting about this article was how the right leaning users are likely to follow them because they need the left leaning users for engagement. I suppose on some level it's common sense. Truth Social and Gab never took off for a reason; but it's still interesting to think about.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 25 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It will be interesting to see what happens as they follow their victims over. Right now, people seem to be experiencing Bluesky as a breath of fresh air, and are attributing it to things like block lists (which, yeah, that's a good idea, and one that we've been asking for for a long while), but a big part of it is just that the ratio of trolls to liberals is way lower right now. They'll figure out how to break through the algorithm eventually, and around the block lists.

And when that happens, Twitter's going to bleed out rapidly as the fashy mouth breathers show up to flex over how they cannot be stopped. Because, yeah, there's nothing keeping them on Twitter once their victims are gone.

[–] UrLogicFails@beehaw.org 42 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I think (/hope) trolls are going to have a pretty hard time gaining traction on Bluesky. As you've mentioned, the block lists are quite effective; but also the lack of algorithm helps too. No matter how many likes/reskeets an offensive skeet gets, I will never see it unless someone I follow specifically reskeets it themselves.

With this in mind, most people seeing the trolls' posts will likely only be the trolls themselves. Of course they can hop into the comments of a popular skeet; but once they are blocked by the original poster, their skeet becomes removed for everybody.

From what I can tell, the enhanced moderation tools combined with the followed-only feed should make being a troll on Bluesky much harder...

[–] socsa@piefed.social 27 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Are they really using the term "reskeet?"

It certainly paints a very specific mental image.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 21 points 3 days ago

That's somehow worse than Mastodon's toots.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] realitista@lemm.ee 7 points 3 days ago

Bluesky has some very powerful features here like auto updating block lists which you can subscribe to and which will automatically remove trolls for you. And they are policing hate speech and harassment.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 33 points 3 days ago

Is the right getting mad because they have no one fun left to yell at on X now? They can always yell at each other. They’re good at eating their own.

[–] Big_Boss_77@lemmynsfw.com 8 points 3 days ago

The cows, chickens, horses, donkeys, sheep, goats, llama, alpaca, and your crazy uncle Earl have all fled the barn

Quickly rushes over to slam the barn door

Phew...just in time.

load more comments
view more: next ›