Privacy
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
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much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
I've had a Fairphone 4 for just under a year running CalyxOS, and I am very happy with it. Not sure when / if CalyxOS will be available for FP5, but unless they have locked down anything, I don't see why that shouldn't happen. If I understand your post correctly, it is already available with e/OS/?
Maybe the specs are underwhelming, but with the FP4, it does not affect me the slightest based on my use case. Phones are more than good enough already. I do not play any games on my phone. Camera could be better - maybe it is on FP5? Is it the perfect phone? Nope, but at the moment, I think our choices are too limited if you want privacy and repairability. Supporting a company that pushes these kinds of phone is also a reason I went with this phone.
Swapable batteries are nice - I've not made use of it yet, but I am planning on getting one or two spare batteries for travel to keep in a printed case. In the EU, this will be mandatory in the future, but first form 2027. Other than that, I am happy with the ability to buy spare parts if something breaks. I can't see myself ever buying something that is deliberately unrepairable again when there is no reason it should be. I don't mind the lack of 3.5mm-port, which I know irritates a lot of people. If you swear to this, I can understand that this is disappointing. There exists an adapter, but my experience with these kind of adapters is that they quickly wear out. That was my experience with the iPhone and Apple's own adapters at least. I burned through four in 1-2 years.
Running a Fairphone 4 with IodéOS (another de-Googled privacy focused Android) for close to two years now and I agree that it's a capable phone which doesn't limit myself in any way.
As you mentioned the biggest downside is the camera, which apparently has something to do with the firmware.
Edit: regarding the headphone situation: I'm using Austrian Audio (=former AKG engineering team) Hi-X25BT headphones, which are noticeably better than pods or cheap headphones and have been running well over a year now. They come with both (mini-)jack to USB-C and USB-C to USB-C cables, but I haven't tried the latter yet.
No.
No headphone jack, no buy. It's not a question of whether a headphone jack is useful to you, it's just the principle of it - there's no good reason to remove it (especially for the asking price of FP5), and more importantly, it goes against what the Fairphone stands for, IMO. I can understand if it were some other profit-driven company making a shrewd business decision, but for Fairphone to do it, seems very unfair to me.
There is a good reason to remove it. Especially for a company like fairphone. Why waste resources and money into making a redundant component (USB-C can do audio, also the majority of people have switched to wireless audio) when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?
There is no good faith argument that can be made for the removal of the headphone jack. Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.
They said it was due to size, but new phones are quite chunky these days so that's not true. Waterproofing? Can be done, many phones have waterproofing and a headphone jack.
Costs? Come on it's a very simple, very old, plastic bit.
And sustainability? "planet-conscious"? You must be kidding. It's way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.
majority of people have switched to wireless audio
Citation needed. Also, just because people have "switched" to wireless doesn't mean that they don't have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste. Also, I suspect a significant portion of Fairphone users are the kind who'd still hold on to wired headphones.
when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?
The first rule in making a planet-conscious product is the RRR - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products. And as a manufacturer, there's practically no shortage of 3.5mm jacks around (plenty of old devices where the parts can be recycled from), and there's almost no complexity involved in wiring up or making circuitry for something that's been a standard for several decades.
Also, just because people have “switched” to wireless doesn’t mean that they don’t have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste.
Another use-case for the headphone jack: I use it to connect my phone to various audio devices, e. g. E-drums for practising playback or the practice room PA tolisten to demos. Nearly all professional equipment uses wired connections.
it's not a redundant component at all. USB-C doesn't carry analogue audio. You need an external DAC to convert that digital signal to analogue to make it usable. You can't plug your headphones into a USB-C port.
Regarding the "no good reason to remove it," my understanding was that Samsung opted to remove it to increase the water resistance rating. Unfortunately the fairphone 4 only has an IP54 rating, so that's certainly not the case here.
Apparently they address the headphones jack question in an article on fairphone's support page.
Not arguing with you btw, but the excuses they've provided are all BS. For starters, IP rating isn't really an issue - the Pixel 5a, Galaxy A52, Xperia 5 V, Zenfone 10 - all have a headphone jack, and a minimum of IP65, even going up to IP68 (Pixel 5a), so that really can't be an excuse. Also, cost can't be an excuse either, considering the examples I've provided consists of both budget and premium phones.
The only answer that makes sense here is GREED. Nothing but plain and good ol capitalism at work.
I think Air Pods netted Apple more money than Spotify's annual revenue or some shit.
Which is why Samsung gave up after making fun of Apple.
i took a chance with the FP4 and bought it even though it has no 3,5mm jack. i absolutely hate it. if there's no headphone jack on the next model, i will have to switch to nokia or shiftphone.
If you're not a power user, then it'll probably work fine for several years. And it will be cheap and easy to replace the battery in 3-5 years when it starts to degrade, or replace the screen if you drop it. Not sure if a full 10 year lifespan is realistic, though.
And you're right, the price is high, but it's not supposed to be an affordable phone. The stated goal of the Fairphone is to be better for the environment and better for people than most other electronics. So, they have to do things like use sustainable materials and source parts from places that treat their workers well. All of that means that Fairphones will NEVER be as cheap as other brands. Because doing things right costs more.
We’ll probably never be allowed Fairphone in USA, which I’ve been eying since before launch. Curiosity got the better of me anyway; it’s still cheaper than iPhone https://eu.mobgsm.com/mobile/apple-iphone-14-pro-max-price-in-europe
The price feels really high, you're right. For me, it makes me think of why the rest is the phones are not more expensive. If FP5 costs this much with such underwhelming specs, but with a truly fair supply chain, then all other players must be cutting a lot of corners. I will must likely be getting a FP5 because of the statement. Just hope the camera is good enough that I can live with it for 10 years...
Ingl, I don't see the difference between phone cameras anymore. I mean, I do when I look very closely, but if I want a really proper photo, I use a standalone camera. (Or ask people who own lenses twice as expensive as my phone on their own.)
I use the FP3. It's an old device but I find it very responsive, and keeps up with what I need it to do personally. I like it, but don't like Android. I wish the device had more RAM though.
The FP5 looks promising (and big 😳) the only turn offs for me are no 3.5mm headphone jack, and the price could do with another 150-200 off at least. Since FP is a niche company with some special supply chain arrangements, I think this price is the best we'll get for now (unless you trade in an old device for recycling for money off), but it's still expensive.
If you value the ability to own and repair your device, the knowledge that people further down in the supply chain get paid a little extra when they're collecting materials for Fairphone, and that your device will very, very likely get supported for the full time they claim (and even longer in the case of the FP2), then it's probably worth it.
Otherwise, a new/recent Pixel (eligible to recieve GrapheneOS updates) is another very good option.
Regardless of what device you choose, if you want to keep your next phone for 10 years, you'll want a lot of onboard storage - but keep as much things as possible on an SD card. This is to avoid burning out your onboard NAND, since it has a finite lifespan and not replaceable.
Pixels don't support SD cards AFAIK, so if you go for one of them I'd recommend going for the highest builtin storage that you can afford (especially if it's a used one)
Another FP3 user here.
I wish the device had more RAM though.
I use lineageos with zram on mine. It works wonders
I bought the FP3, then upgraded it to an FP3+ when the camera broke. Never had as much fun with a phone before or since. It has been my daily driver for years and it did everything well enough, if a bit slow. My friends either get new phones or use them despite visible damage because they can't fix them. Now I ordered the FP5 to have the 3+ as a backup and test setup and I am confident I will use the FP5 for 3-6 years again :)
Fairphones are like an odd car: There are sleeker, faster, cheaper and maybe just better alternatives around. However you still like it and just learn where to hit it with a hammer when it starts making funny noises. If you can afford it and like odd devices, it's for you.
Hopefully I'm not too late to say this: I would strongly caution against buying a Fairphone. My mum got a new Fairphone 3 in early 2021. Earlier this year, just after the phone went out of warranty, the USB-C port stopped working. The replacement bottom module was out of stock, it's been out of stock for months, and the forums are full of people complaining that it's been mostly out of stock since 2021. Fairphone claimed that they would have stock back by the end of August, and as of today, that is not true. This phone was supposed to have spare parts available through to 2025.
From a privacy perspective: no
From a fairness and repairability perspective: yes
Why is it bad from a privacy perspective?
It's not bad, it's just that it's an Android phone like any other. It doesn't claim to be more "private". It would be approximately the same amount of work to degoogle as any other Android phone.
Probably easier if they dont actively try to prevent you from unlocking & rooting
They literally launched a /e/OS version the same day...
Depends on what you're using the phone for. Personally, my usage isn't very demanding, so having a phone that's going to have security updates and a replaceable battery will probably let me use the phone for 5+ years.
I probably won't keep the phone for 10 years, but it means I can upgrade on my schedule, not just because some company decided for me.
check your most used apps here to see if they work with mircoG: plexus.techlore.tech
I've been using degoogled phones for years and I bareley have any issues. only issues are snapchat and google maps give warnings, but work. other google apps work fine.
It used to be you had to regularly do some convoluted workaround to get things working with microG, but that hasn't been an issue for me for years now.
yeah the fp5 is expensive, but hardware wise it's the first one I could actually see myself using as a daily driver. Considering that I'd probably use it for 3 years at least, the price isn't that bad either. However, I'd love to have a folding phone instead, but I'm pretty sure it'll take a few years until good degoogled roms are available for those. so yeah fp5 seems like a good transistionary device.
Since we are in a privacy subreddit, I will say that Fairphone is second only to the Google Pixel in terms of support for privacy focused versions of Android. For privacy specifically, they are a great choice.
Subreddit? You high man? Do you need some water? Have you eaten well?
It's about half the price of a flagship phone and projected to have 8 years of support. That seems reasonable.
I don't see it as being "out". The webpage only has a preorder option and I'll never preorder anything. I'd wait and see what the general consensus is before buying anything. Things can look good on paper. All that being said, if it's actually decent then it seems like a pretty good deal.
It's too expensive for me. Not worth it when a used Pixel is way cheaper, has way better hardware and has support for GrapheneOS.
A second-hand phone is always worthier
The new one is definitely too expensive for me. I have a phone that I'm not really happy with, but I'm keeping it for as long as possible. After that, I'm probably going to look for a used fairphone. I don't see myself going with another completely unrepairable device.
Ten years is an extremely long time in tech and we might not even be using phones as we currently know them by then.