this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
64 points (91.0% liked)

Privacy

31882 readers
548 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

Chat rooms

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Cross-posted to: https://sh.itjust.works/post/15859195


From other conversations that I've read through, people usually say "Yes, because it's easy on Windows", or "Yes, because they simply don't trust the webcam". But neither of these arguments are enough for me. The former I feel is irrelevent when one is talking about Linux, and the latter is just doing something for the sake of doing it which is not exactly a rational argument.

Specifically for Linux (although, I suppose this partially also depends on the distro, and, of course, vulnerabilites in whatever software that you might be using), how vulnerable is the device to having its webcam exploited? If you trust the software that you have running on your computer, and you utilize firewalls (application layer, network layer, etc.), you should be resistant to such types of exploits, no? A parallel question would also be: How vulnerable is a Linux device if you don't take extra precautions like firewalls.

If this is the case, what makes Windows so much more vulnerable?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 46 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I do, for three reasons:

  1. Hackers. It's unlikely that anyone would hack my webcam, but there's always a chance. Maybe I'm paranoid, idk.
  2. Hardware exploits. Three of my laptops are too old for me to update the firmware with fwupd, so I cover the webcams in case there's some critical hardware-level vulnerability which could be exploited; or in case one of the three-letter agencies are in there.
  3. Consequences. Despite the incredibly low chances of anything happening whatsoever, the possible consequences are too bad for me to want to risk it.

I'm paranoid, aren't I...

[–] Awe@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

And for me: 4. It makes it a lot harder to accidently turn my camera on in meetings (a different form of privacy)

[–] Kolrami@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Also, it's incredibly low effort to cover it. There's no subscription plan for covering a webcam.

[–] amju_wolf@pawb.social 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Security is always applied in layers. If you aren't inconvenienced by it, it's a really solid layer to use. Doesn't matter how 'paranoid' you are, it's a good strategy.

[–] Kindness@lemmy.ml 36 points 8 months ago

Is it unnecessary to cover one's webcam on Linux?

No. Please cover your webcam.

how vulnerable is the device to having its webcam exploited?

Every bit as much as Windows minus their proprietary spyware.

How vulnerable is a Linux device if you don’t take extra precautions like firewalls.

Depends on what links you like to click.

what makes Windows so much more vulnerable?

Fewer eyes on the source code. Effort to reward ratio, the 80-20 rule. 20% of the effort nets your 80% of the reward. Literally. Develop exploits for one platform, target 80% of average computer users. Or write exploits for hundreds of different distros for *checks notes* ... 4%. Unless you like servers. There there's a coin toss. 50% linux, 50% Windows.

Keep yourself safe, there's malware for Gnu-Linux too. Install your patches when you can. Remove software you don't use. Practice good cyber hygiene.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 21 points 8 months ago

If this is the case, what makes Windows so much more vulnerable?

As with most exploits: they go for where the most and easiest targets are.

As a Linux user it is very unlikely that anyone will try to hack your webcam, even if Linux were similarly vulnerable as Windows.

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 16 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The device is vulnerable. The webcam is one way that gets exploited.

If it makes you feel safer, cover the camera when you’re not using it. I can’t comprehend why a person wouldn’t cover it up when it’s not in use. It takes one second.

Stay patched up.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago

Wash your cyber hands, use good quality, cyber soap, cyber shower regularly 👌

[–] Fisch@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

It's really cool how a lot of Laptops nowadays (including mine) have a feature built-in that covers and disables the webcam with a button press. I can have it disabled most of the time and when I need it, I just press the button to enable it.

[–] AtmaJnana@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

just buy a little stick-on privacy slider. They're like 3 for $10

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If I had a nickel for every time I bought a privacy slider for a laptop that already had one, or one with a hard-to-notice hardware switch. I would have 2 nickels which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice.

[–] pixelscript@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

these sliders are very thin, but not thin enough. neither of my laptops close correctly with one equipped. :(

Ah well. Masking tape suffices.

[–] AtmaJnana@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

yeah for my macbook, i use gaffer's tape.

[–] Ohh@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My take: if your camera is spying on you, there is a big chance that your entire device has been compromised. Ig that happens, it's game over and me masturbating to bdsm furry porn is the least of my problems. Especially now that AI video exists anyway.

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

It's all about reducing the surface area for an attack — if you do become compromised, it's one less thing to have to worry aobut. It would be preferable to not have to worry about your data and someone bribing you with some video footage.

[–] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

It’s a hardware issue not a software issue. If your laptop can run its webcam and not have the light turn on then it’s bad hardware. Software might get around one exploit, but that doesn’t fix what’s a hardware issue.

[–] shootwhatsmyname@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago

Honestly, I don’t think anyone can actually say 100% for sure that your webcam can’t be accessed. We don’t know what we don’t know—new exploits are discovered every day—thus it’s worth the extra 2 seconds to cover and uncover it.

[–] excitingburp@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

All software has bugs, including Linux. Some bugs can lead to security escalation. Those bugs are called vulnerabilities. Like bugs, all software has vulnerabilities - including Linux.

Your webcam can be accessed by hackers on Linux, on Windows, on MacOS, on BSD, it doesn't matter.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago

If they have that level of access you are in trouble

[–] einat2346@lemmy.today 8 points 8 months ago

Linux is not magically more resilient than Windows. If an exploit on windows exists, a similar exploit could also exist on Linux.

You can't hack a piece of electrical tape. But there are classier webcam covers which you can slide to close available for sale.

[–] dukatos@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you are running zoom, teams, skype or similar software, cover it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] electricprism@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 months ago

This question really begs the point that cam and mic need kill switches that physically disconnect these things with a simple switch.

One of you go make a wall mounted light switch thing with a red LED for Workstations and sell it -- I could see this becoming standard.

Laptop world is going to take more inroads from slacker hackers scratching their own itch.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Uh, yes? It always seemed a bit silly to me. If they have that level of access you are in trouble

[–] MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"you're already* in trouble"

[–] memfree@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If you trust this source, it turns out that it is pretty easy to see your camera feed even if your camera is off: https://techxplore.com/news/2024-02-camera-hackers-spy-cameras-walls.html

I read about it on lemmy, too. I guess I -- or one of us -- should have cross posted it here from its .world source: https://lemmy.world/post/12081766

Edit to add excerpts:

Results vary on how far away someone would have to be in order to eavesdrop on these different devices. For some, a peeping Tom would have to be less than 1 foot away; for others, they could be as far away as 16 feet.

For consumers, Fu says a plastic lens cover might not be guaranteed to protect you—infrared signals can still get through them––but it is a good first step to battling this kind of cyberthreat.

[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

The way I would look at it is:

  • If you aren't sure you can trust your computer, you should probably cover your webcam.
  • Your level of risk tolerance can vary, so what a person would consider trustworthy may differ from person to person. (For some, maybe any proprietary software makes the computer untrustworthy. For others, maybe they feel smart enough to make good decisions about what software is trustworthy and they just don't download anything that sets off their spidey sense. Or whatever.)
  • If you're taking extreme measures to ensure your machine is trustworthy, you're probably going much further out of your way than covering your webcam anyway. If you've picked a lot of the higher branches clean anyway, you probably ought to go ahead and pick that remaining low-hanging fruit.
  • Regarding Windows specifically, some would probably call Windows systems less trustworthy on some combination of that a) Microsoft is assholes that might themselves use webcam data in evil ways and/or b) Windows is more targeted by crackers and malware.
[–] z00s@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

The thing about exploits is that they can exist without there being a wider knowledge of them; that's the nature of the beast. So I play it safe.

Plus, for 5 cents' worth of masking tape you've solved the problem, so why bother even thinking about it.

[–] A1kmm@lemmy.amxl.com 4 points 8 months ago

One of the key tenets of keeping something computerised secure is 'Defence in Depth' - i.e. having multiple layers of defence, so that even if one layer is breached, the next layer (which you thought was redundant and unnecessary) prevents the attack.

Running a fully patched kernel and services / applications should protect you unless someone has a 0-day (i.e. not disclosed) exploit. Reducing the surface area by minimising what services / applications are running, using software (firejail etc...) and firewalls to limit permissions of applications / services to what is needed, etc... serves as another layer of defence. Disconnecting or physically blocking peripherals that might allow for spying is another layer; it serves its purpose if all the other layers are breached.

[–] neutron@thelemmy.club 3 points 8 months ago

It's better to be proactive than being reactive. Take preventive measures that fit your threat model.

[–] PoliticalCustard@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If I'm not using my cam, it's not plugged in. If I am not chatting, my headset's physical button has the mic deactivated. That's two potential vulnerabilities I just don't have to think about.

[–] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Just put a tape with thick black paper or plastic cutout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHnBYZINzc&t=15

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 3 points 8 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=OhHnBYZINzc&t=15

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago

Most malware is writen for Windows, but Linux malware exists, and has been found in the wild. The most common infection method, like with windows is running a trojan, theoretically things like browser exploits could also be used, but these are unlikely unless you are a high profile target like a head of state or CEO.

I would personaly be much more worried about someone evesdropping through my microphone. All they would get from my camera is my face and some glances of the room my computer is in, but my microphone would reveal all sorts of private conversations.

[–] sloppy_diffuser@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It is. I run a virtual camera for blurred backgrounds that logs when clients connect and noticed one of my web conferencing type apps like to take a photo ever second. Haven't taken time to investigate which (likely candidates: slack, zoom, webex, discord).

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago

If this is the case, what makes Windows so much more vulnerable?

What the hell. They are same vulnerable.

[–] tapdattl@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I dont think the covering of webcams with tape on windows is necessarily about a malware or an exploit watching you, but more about windows itself monitoring and selling off everything you do.

[–] Helix@feddit.de 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago
[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 1 points 8 months ago

If you use Qubes then USB devices and mics are by default not attached to any VMs.

[–] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago

Doesn't Pegasus spy on you from the hardware?

load more comments
view more: next ›