I'm fine with this. The old model was great and unsustainable. They are switching with the explicit goal of not taking VC money, which is a good thing in any context.
this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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This is where I'm conflicted. Software development is hard and it's expensive. I completely understand that the old model was unsustainable.
HOWEVER - I've seen this a dozen times before. They make a move that's not great but it is understandable with the community. It's the next move that I worry about, when all of a sudden there is a subscription, or those old "lifetime" plans suddenly aren't lifetime. I remember PlayOn TV suddenly saying "Well now it's PlayOn Home. That's a new product, so you did get the lifetime of the old PlayOn TV! So we didn't really reneg on our deal!" Immediately in the garbage.
So, I'll be staying on for now.... with a big "we'll fuckin' see" in the next few years.
Me over here with a lifetime plex pass: "...uhhh, did you just feel that?"
Just learn a simple reverse proxy and swap out for jellyfin. Other than Plex not handling the user subscription/account side (privacy!) it's basically the same thing with some small edge cases like people with WebOS TVs and shit.
Unpopular but I've tried hard to switch to JF cold-turkey, twice, and both times it looks and acts like a hobby project. It's so far behind the curve it's rather upsetting, as that seems to be the 'best' we have for foss options.
Settings (all of them, global application or library) have way too many options with way too little explanation to what they do. With categories, either use them or don't, but like 6 categories for everything and you scroll through 25 settings isn't 'categorization' it's just a mess; can we get a nested menu please. No simple dvr solution - I shouldn't be required to pay a separate company a monthly fee for guide info. The UI screams 'my designer is also a developer' like it has a face only a mother can love. For https setup unless you know to just run a reverse proxy (I didn't the first time), the instructions might as well be a rubix cube compared to plex's execution. The metadata it pulls is alright I guess, but by that point I had already thrown in the towel. Oh yeah, hardware acceleration requiring manual setup is just no bueno; at this point it's like I'm taking a half-done Lego set and finishing it because my kid got bored and took a nap, and because I don't value my time enough I see it through to the end.
I want it to get better, genuinely, but damn does it have a way to go.
Hard agree. I love jellyfin and use it exclusively, but getting hardware acceleration working is a mess, the movie and show selection UI is really written by a developer and is very basic and 2010ish.
Android apps like Findroid really improve this, but the webUI and androidTV/chromecast UI really need an overhaul.
Thank you. When I mention how hard it is to get HW running, especially compared to Plex, people start acting like I'm mentally handicapped.
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Try Emby. Hardware acceleration works out of the box. It is paid though but I’m very happy with it for past few years.
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I don't watch TV, just shows and movies, so I didn't ever need the DVR functionality. So I get that. NVENC encoding was as simple as choosing it and hitting save; so I'm not sure why you were having troubles there unless you were trying to set up docker or some shit, but that's on you for using containerization, not on jellyfin.
And the UI is short, sweet, and to the point - exactly what I want to select a show and have it get out of my way. It looks almost exactly like AndroidTV did when it was introduced. Just a nice, clean way to select and start what you want.
I don't use the dvr functions myself, but family does, heavily, so it's an automatic show-stopper at the end of the day until that sees some love.
Docker, yeah. I have had minimal and solvable issues with other containers, and I believe docker is my only option (synology nas); but again I'd point at plex, as there's a container available that has 0 setup for hwa (beyond the container pull), and it "just works" so...
Eh, I mean it "works" but it's this uninspiring blue-on-black with white text that feels like it came straight from 2004. It's so... Toyota Corolla of UI "designs". I guess if the settings were decently laid out and easy to understand I wouldn't have to spend so much time staring at it and maybe it wouldn't bother me but again the setup/config is painful and options are obtuse at times, requiring time and research and tinkering... so here we are :/
Jellyfin still doesn't have a good solution for music. None of the players that support it are anywhere near as good as Plexamp.
Yeah, that's certainly the truth.
I'll keep using it until they no longer let me, I guess. Pretty sure OMV and TrueNAS have matured enough to fall to if unRAID decides to go full subscription, at least.
Hey, fellow PlayOn lifetime subscriber! I feel you and not everyone needs to feel the way I do about this. But, I’m fine with it. That may change, but it’s where I am now.
That move by them is what makes me so nervous about things like this. I will never not be angry, I left that company the second they announced our lifetime memberships were useless. "You get 3 whole months of the new subscription because we're nice like that." No way, I was out.
I hope unraid treats us better, but I'm nervous as hell.
For those (like me) who don’t know:
https://www.techhive.com/article/579775/playon-streaming-dvr-just-got-a-lot-pricier.html
My biggest problem is security updates.
The "x years of upgrades" model is okay when it's for an app, where you can just keep using it with the old feature set and no harm is done.
But Unraid isn't an app, it's a whole operating system.
With this new licensing model, over time we will see many people sticking with old versions because they dont want to pay to renew - and then what happens when critical security vulnerabilities are found?
The question was already asked on the Unraid forum thread, and the answer from them on whether they would provide security updates for non-latest versions was basically "we don't know" - due to how much effort they would need to spend to individually fix all those old versions, and the team size it would require.
It's going to be a nightmare.
Any user who cares about good security practice is effectively going to be forced to pay to renew, because the alternative will be to leave yourself potentially vulnerable.
At which point such an user might already be looking at TrueNAS/DIY setups TBH
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Ah, yes, the Autodesk style "not a subscription."
Which lasts JUST long enough to get people to buy in on the lower levels before they pull the fucking rug.
Former sublime text user here. Eating popcorn and chuckling at "lifetime license"
Some of you guys are nahive.
The true and best open source stuff is not developed for profit. Once it is, its only a matter of time because, guess what, software development is never really profitable no matter how much you piss off your user base.
Don't get me wrong: nothing bad in seeking profit, I do it myself too, I don't live of thin air...
But true open source projects are not developed by seeking sustainability and profit out of it. I steer away from any such project because it's doomed sooner or later and history is full of those projects.
Naive/naïve?
I searched for "nahive" just in case it was a word I hadn't heard of but it doesn't seem to be.
Yes, naïve :)
Did you know the world naïve is written backwards on your water bottle?
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Software development is never profitable?
For it to be, you need a solid paying user base. Which is not the case at hand.
Very often also at.enterprise level the big money is in training, support and courses rather than in the software licenses per se.
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I was about to fly off my handle when I heard this, and was about to send them an email to give them a good piece of my kind. But I chose to read first (don't do this very often) and I found that this applies to new customers only. I think this is pretty fair. I've been using Unraid for 5 years now, and have absolutely no regrets. Anyone thinking on getting an unraid license, now is the time.
Yeah, there have been posts saying "They're going subscription!!" and that's why I made this one. They're not going subscription. It makes me hella nervous that they might go subscription, but for now they're not. I'm alarmed and watching, but my pitchfork is still in the shed. ...for now.
Haha me too! I only use 6 drives but bought a pro key just to support. However, if I had to then pay more I would have felt wronged and would have joined the ESXi boys jumpimg on the proxmox train. Might ride that train someday just to learn it.
Proxmox is great but if you are happy on unraid then it does make a lot of things simple that may or may not (depending on what we’re talking about) be as easy on PVE. For example, PVE is not a storage solution first; sure you can do lots of storage stuff but you should not host shares directly off it for example (set up a container or VM to host the shares passed through from the storage pool on the host box).
You get more control and customization (which is where I was very happy; I have a cluster and my network shares are a service I manage within that) but if you are looking for a NAS-first solution for a single server, give something like TrueNAS Scale a good look before you take the plunge.
They've gotta make money somehow.
Having a bunch of intentionally out of date systems seems like a bad idea though.
I'm hoping security updates are always included, but new features could be gated by lifetime/subscription. But no word on that yet.
Yeah they don't mention it at all which is a bit concerning.
At least they are being honest and keeping their word on the lifetime promise to those who bought those. How many other companies keep their word like that?
I read the whole thread just waiting to see something that would make me go, "Oh, see, there it is - that's how it's a trick. That's why it's a double-speak betrayal."
And...I didn't see it. It honestly looks like they are doing a thing to help develop the product in a way that as a user, I want; and they are not throwing current users under the bus or bait-and-switching what we were promised when we committed to the platform.
New users may not have it quite as good, but it still seems reasonable, and honestly - getting involved early is something that should be rewarded in special ways. We accept it in all sorts of other contexts (just with more up-front information, but not in materially different outcomes).
Proxmox, OpenMediaVault VM, Docker, Portainer, SnapRaid.
I have similar setup but without PROXMOX. I tried it but never saw the benefit. Using ZFS for bitrot protection.
While it's a valid business decision, and while I can see that they're trying to open more storage options for lower tiers, it does feel like a bait-and-switch to me. I've had so many people pushing this to me and I've been interested, but unable to justify the money for a license, because I'm poor and have severe health problems in the USA, which means unfortunately my money is better spent elsewhere.
So when I'm finally getting close to feeling like I might maybe have a spare $90 I could put towards a Plus license, it just feels lame that if I don't come up with the money soon, I'll be left paying for updates each year.
On the current Buy Now page it reads "Buy Once, Use for Life. No subscription. No hidden fees."
This just feels like the first step of enshittification to me. While its great the low-level plans now have access to more storage devices, now it is a subscription if you want to keep security updates? So no subscription until they change their minds, essentially. I don't know, it definitely makes me feel less inclined to invest my money in it. I never saw myself needing more than 12 storage devices, and a lifetime of updates seemed like a great deal. This seems like an average deal. I don't even have close to 12 drives, so having "unlimited" storage devices seems... pointless to a casual user trying to set up a cheap NAS at home.
I don't use unraid as it is proprietary software
Good now I don’t have to plan a huge data migration for a good long while
Not gonna lie, I thought it already worked like this.
As long as the lifetime licenses continue to be a thing, it's great.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| ESXi | VMWare virtual machine hypervisor |
| NAS | Network-Attached Storage |
| Plex | Brand of media server package |
| ZFS | Solaris/Linux filesystem focusing on data integrity |
4 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 4 acronyms.
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