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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world to c/insanepeoplefacebook@lemmy.world
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[-] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 116 points 8 months ago

Actual lawyer here. Just in case anyone was somehow unsure, this is utter nonsense.

In fact, calling it nonsense might be giving nonsense a bad name. Completely deranged might be better.

But yes. These people do exist. And they are a pain in the fucking ass. Every 100th filing they actually say something that does have legal precedent, and that you can't ignore. So you have to actually read every line of their bullshit. Nobody wants to be the lawyer that actually lost to a sovereign...

But hey, at least they usually end up paying our fees in the end.

[-] Phanatik@kbin.social 26 points 8 months ago

I've heard what SovCits do being referred to as paper terrorism.

[-] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Yep, this is a common expression, and I fully endorse it.

[-] duplexsystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 8 months ago

Do you have a public example of a sovereign saying something that has precedent?

[-] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

The Wisconsin Journal of Family Law published an article about them a couple months back, their October 2023 issue. I'm not sure exactly how public that is, might only be for members. And for some reason I can't upload the pictures I just took to this comment. I'm probably doing something wrong, haven't shared pictures in a Lemmy comment before. I'll try something else in a bit maybe, or if anyone wants to walk me through it I'd appreciate it, but I can't spend too much time trying to figure this out right now. Work and all that.

But I kind of said it wrong for simplicity's sake. It's not that 1 in 100 filings has something (well, maybe it is, but...), it's that one of their strategies is to file a pleading with 100 points of nonsense, and then in that nonsense, they bury something that cites a real law which says a response is required. If you don't respond, you lose.

The article said don't engage them in face to face arguments because they're insane and that's a waste of time, but make sure to read their filings carefully.

[-] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 29 points 8 months ago

Okay well I just uploaded it to an imgur album. Here you go: https://imgur.com/a/yoJch6n

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[-] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Just for future reference, you can link to things using the following format:

[Your text here](Your link here)

If you want to embed the image to show up in-line with your comment, you add an exclamation point before the first bracket. And whatever you put in the brackets becomes alt text, which users can view by hovering over the image.

![Your alt text here](your link here)

To put it into practice, the exclamation point is the difference between the following:

Example link text
And
Example alt text

One note is that it’s typically best to start a new line when embedding, since some apps don’t quite know how to parse image width and will run off the edge of the screen (making some/all of the image unviewable.)

[-] Klear@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Nobody wants to be the lawyer that actually lost to a sovereign…

Has that ever actually happened?

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

can't something like this 'legal maneuver' be used as further evidence to take this numpty's kids? a sovcit household is obviously not safe place for children.

[-] Red_October@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Ah but they do not identify as a household, it is a domicile containing non-incorporated individuals, so your rules don't apply.

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

But hey, at least they usually end up paying our fees in the end.

I'm just amazed that this movement hasn't sworn off fiat currency while they're at it. Assuming they're not paying in precious metals, that is.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Do you have any good sovcit stories?

[-] Sage_the_Lawyer@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

My only experience with one wasn't all that bad, but still kind of funny.

Client was charged with resisting/obstructing and disorderly conduct. Basically, the cops had closed a road because of an accident. Client was on his bike, and the officer told him the road was closed and he had to go a different way. Client flipped his shit, started yelling that the officer had no right to tell him where to go (yes they do), and no right to ask for identification (yes, they do).

Client finally started going an alternate route, and the officer was going to just let it go. But then he doubled back and tried to blow past the officer. Got arrested. Hired us.

I called the prosecutor to see what kind of reduction they'd be willing to do (standard procedure), and they were willing to drop one charge and reduce the other to an ordinance violation (pay a small fine).

Told the client this, who then flipped out on me for talking to the prosecutor without his consent (???) and without him there (which is, y'know, what he hired us to do). Fired our firm and demanded a refund. We all had a good laugh, and he did not get a refund.

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[-] ajmaxwell@lemmy.world 78 points 8 months ago

I love that he says the court has no jurisdiction over him, then ends his letter with "certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct."

Absolutely bonkers.

[-] KISSmyOS@feddit.de 7 points 8 months ago

They believe there exist both a true United States of America, and a completely separate United States of America corporation (whose laws they aren't subject to).
Then they pick and chose which laws belong to which of the 2 US's, based on what's beneficial to them.

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[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 67 points 8 months ago

As a father going through custody issues the idea that I would forget when a hearing is going to happen is unimaginable. Even if I didn't have a good lawyer, I'd staple a note to my head to make sure I was at least there for my kids.

I'm not sure if I should be sad one or more kids lost their father, or glad that he probably won't be involved in their lives.

[-] jopepa@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

You’re right to feel both.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

This guy is seriously insane, drives with fake license and ID, has harassed his ex, been arrested a LOT, and hasn't paid taxes in over a decade. He has no contact with his kids anymore and that's probably good.

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 60 points 8 months ago

We never get the 'WTF IT DIDN'T WORK' follow ups in these and, honestly, it feels like holding in a sneeze.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

Oh I can help with that, although sometimes they just drop out of sight.

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 9 points 8 months ago

The ostensibly broken vacuum cleaner leaning against the outside of the house is the icing on the cake in that picture

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[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Okay that's a beautiful one

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[-] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 42 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Ok ok, let's assume they are right and legal magical words do exist. Why on earth would you write 'do not construe my words' on your magical piece of paper? Did they mean misconstrue? Is this some sort of copy pasta nobody reads?

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

I'm just imaging someone in a powder wig shouting these words, with the same energy as "witness me!"

[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago
[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The fact that someone saw this pseudo-17th-century style legalese and thought "this looks legit", is just wild to me.

This is the kind of thing you perform when role-playing a colonial-era barrister for laughs. Which would be weird, but it would at least make sense.

Anyway, this reads kind of like an attempt to (somehow) opt-out from participating in, well, citizenship (sovereign citizen?). But while retaining the right to stay put. But not as an alien. But then using US law to assert they are not lying, in every version of the US across the entire multiverse ("in all dimensions")

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Worse: it's riddled with stylistic errors.

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[-] Red_October@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago

Boy, how neat would it be if you could just demand the court drop all charges against you because you choose to not be subject to them? I have to wonder what these SovCit nutjobs think is the reason the rest of the population doesn't do this. Do they honestly believe they're just smarter? In possession of some secret knowledge that most people just don't have? How do you look at the entire rest of the population and think "No, they're all just wrong, I'm the only one who knows."

[-] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

Boy, how neat would it be if you could just demand the court drop all charges against you because you choose to not be subject to them?

I mean, that's what our former president keeps trying to do. Seems like they're just following his lead.

[-] ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee 17 points 8 months ago

Do they honestly believe they're just smarter? In possession of some secret knowledge that most people just don't have?

Yes, this is what they believe.

How do you look at the entire rest of the population and think "No, they're all just wrong, I'm the only one who knows."

I think narcissism in most cases.

[-] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 34 points 8 months ago

Disappointed it didn't continue rhyming after the first two clauses. Maybe that's the trick they're missing to make their legal mumbo jumbo magic work.

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[-] thrawn@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago

I used to see the insane people sub but it was filled with a lot of not fun to watch insane people. Sovcits are endless entertainment though. I’ve enjoyed this version of the community more than any other, if it ever starts getting a lot of other traffic, I hope you make a dedicated sovcit community

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

I used to try posting sovcits there but nobody seemed to care for them too much. And yes I sure will make a Lemmy version of AmIBeingDetained!

[-] smashboy@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

I agree, some of it was really grim, or people with legitimate mental illnesses. Sovcits though, 🍿

[-] Kayel@aussie.zone 20 points 8 months ago

"Order the judge..."

Next on how to receive the maximum

[-] aturtlesdream@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

This reminds me of when some idiot gets their hands on a thesaurus. Then, they try to swap out words randomly to make themselves seem smarter, and instead, it comes out total gibberish. Joey from friends comes to mind

[-] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Writing cadence of Chris Chan. I am the TRUE and HONEST Socerign citizen and that dang dirty UNITED STATES CORPORATION has no jurisdiction over ME

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[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

All dimensions.

Jfc

[-] Municipal0379@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Missed a black out on the last name.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago
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[-] YaksDC@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

The classic red thumbprint is often their own blood. 🤦

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this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2024
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