this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Good read, gives me a lot of hope for this project.

I look forward to an exciting future with all of you.

(Also- hopefully this wasn't posted already)

https://join-lemmy.org/news/2023-06-17_-_Update_from_Lemmy_after_the_Reddit_blackout

This was written by the Lemmy devs.

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[–] theory@feddit.uk 59 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Hopefully this defuses the "lemmy is a tankie network" rumour once and for all

[–] IsThisLemmyOpen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 47 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I couldn't care less if they are actually tankies, just keep developing the code and don't try to inject malware (well it's open source they can't lol), believe whatever you wanna believe, I don't care.

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[–] speedycat2014@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm old and out of the loop but that astroturfing was so blatantly obvious it pinged my BS meter immediately.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What astroturfing? The tanky astroturfing or astroturfing about the place being tanky?

Because before the influx, Lemmy.ml was absolutely tanky. It's just been completely drowned out by the flood, so it barely matters anymore.

Like, this entire platform has arguably gone through one of the most dramatic changes in a week in the history of the internet. What was here before is almost irrelevant now. What the devs believe is also irrelevant because it's open source and decentralized. Literally the whole point of this is to not be beholden to them.

[–] delnac@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can confirm lemmy.ml had a pretty unsavory look to it before the migration. It's the reason I elected not to sign up there out of precaution because with what I was seeing, I worried about it getting defederated stat.

[–] administrator@lemmy.pro -1 points 1 year ago

Absolutely, when I first arrived… seems long ago but wasn’t! The β€œtankie” talk was thick and I was hearing all kinds of wacky perspectives I’d never heard before and presented pretty heatedly. I do think they’ve been drowned out now with the influx.

[–] Ashyr@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A tankie is not a fascist. He denied being a genocidal fascist.

I've seen a lot of pro-China propaganda coming from Lemmy and I suspect tankie is still on the table.

[–] Nadya@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Another phrase for Tankie ideology is Red Fascism.

I'd specifically like to highlight that someone who was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp - so has firsthand experience with a fascist regime - described the Soviets as the following, emphasis mine:

Kurt Schumacher, who was imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps, but survived WWII to become the first post-war SPD opposition leader in West Germany, described pro-Soviet communists as "red-painted fascists" or "red-lacquered Nazis"

So in what ways exactly is a tankie not a fascist?

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

that exalts nation

"We did not hesitate to shoot thousands of people, and we shall not hesitate, and we shall save the country." - Vladimir Lenin

often race

https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor

that stands for a centralized autocratic government

The State

headed by a dictatorial leader

Lenin;Stalin

severe economic and social regimentation

Five year plan

forcible suppression of opposition

Cheka secret police.

If Tankies are not fascists - then neither were Nazi's.

[–] LizardKing15@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Communism is on the left, Fascism or on the right. Purely from an academic perspective talking about Red Fascists is like debating virginity of a prostitute lol

[–] blightbow@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If we're going to get academic about it, the political compass is an imprecise tool and it's a fool's errand to take an absolutist approach to assigning political ideologies on the spectrum. :P Just because an ideology is generally in the authoritarian-socialist quadrant doesn't mean it can't crib notes from a philosophy in a different quadrant. The authoritarian axis is more anchoring here than socialist/conservative.

[–] boredtortoise@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

"Tankies" are not communists, they are fascists with red masks on

[–] minimar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

This is like a small child's understanding of politics

[–] Nadya@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean if you want to get academic about it - I suggest you talk to some people in academia. Nearly all of those who say "Fascism is different." self-describe themselves as Marxists or are Stalinist apologists - such as Michael Parenti or Sheila Fitzpatrick. Gee, I wonder why Marxists would want to distance Communism (and more specifically - Stalinism) from being compared with other fascists regimes like the Nazis. Maybe they don't like how it makes them look bad?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nazism_and_Stalinism

No really - read the above link and anyone who is cited as saying Stalinism isn't fascism check their wiki profile. Without a doubt they're a self-described Marxist. They're quite literally the only people who deny that Stalinism was a form of fascism and play apologists for all the atrocities that took place.

A disturbing amount of Communists see attacks on Stalinism as an attack on Communism and so make all sorts of mental gymnastics to defend Stalinism.

Edit:

I much prefer the "That wasn't real Communism!" brand of Communists over the "That was real Communism and here's why the mass murder they did was justified or never happened (despite being well-documented by the Stalinists/Maoists themselves)!" brand of Communists.

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[–] Nadya@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Well of course they aren't genocide deniers. You can't deny something that never happened. Also note that they did not deny being Tankies - they denied being Fascists. Tankies don't recognize themselves as Fascists and will vehemently deny that they are. Here's another phrase for Tankie for the uninformed: Red Fascist

Here is one of the Lemmy devs denying that the Uyghur genocide in China is happening:

https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq954mu/

The Uyghur genocide is as real as white genocide. - Source

Here they are again denying it:

https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq951cv/

The holocaust was a genocide that actually happened, with all the evidence that goes along with it. There is no Uyghur genocide.

Do you believe in anything as soon as the word "genocide" gets attached to it? What about "white genocide"? Are you a white genocide denier? - Source

And just so nobody can deny that parentis_shotgun is a Lemmy dev: - "I'm one of the devs of Lemmy"

Direct links to the posts will not work but still exist on the user's profile page: https://old.reddit.com/user/parentis_shotgun/ - hold PgDn until comments stop loading then Control+F. In fact feel free to peruse their history in general - it's quite interesting.

One of my favorite posts is their defense of the government of North Korea in /r/AskTankies: https://old.reddit.com/r/asktankies/comments/tb1836/okay_but_dprk_seriously/i04d1wu/

Now ask yourself why would someone who is not a Red Fascist Tankie piece of shit be answering questions on behalf of Tankies in /r/AskTankies while defending a totalitarian regime? Is it... perhaps because they're in support of such a regime because they are in fact a Tankie piece of shit?

They also lied about the "single user on Mastadon not providing sources". They did provide sources. The source were things said straight out of the dev's mouth.

Let's play a game of spot the difference between fascists (nazis) and fascists (tankies).

Nazis: Fascists who are directly responsible for the deaths of an estimated 12,000,000 people. Deny a genocide ever took place despite evidence to the contrary (Holocaust). Antisemites who forced minority ethnic groups to work in forced concentration and labor camps and starved them to death. These concentration camps began in 1933 and ended in 1945 lasting for a period of 12~ years. Had a secret police known as the Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo) whose job it was largely to suppress political opposition by any means necessary including execution of dissenters and spy on behalf of the Nazi party. Torture and execution were common - including that of women and children.

Tankies: Fascists who are directly responsible for the deaths an estimated 26,000,000 people. Deny multiple different genocides ever took place despite evidence to the contrary (Holodomor being the most well known). Antisemites who forced minority ethnic groups to work in forced concentration and labor camps and starved them to death. This Gulag network of death prisons began in 1919 and only ended after Stalin's death in 1953 lasting for a period of 34~ years. Had a secret police known as the Π§Π΅ΠΊΠ° (Cheka) whose job it was to suppress political opposition by any means necessary including execution of dissenters and spy on behalf of the State. Torture and execution were common - including that of women and children.

[–] edgerunneralexis@dataterm.digital 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just because they said they weren't? They just dismissed the claim without linking to any real counter evidence by claiming it's just a random Mastodon user or whatever

[–] Pili@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They shouldn't feel the need to present evidence against a claim that didn't present any itself.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 1 points 1 year ago

The claim had evidence. There is direct evidence in this very thread, in this very comment chain….

[–] lvl100magikarp@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've never heard of that. Where did that rumor come from?

[–] theory@feddit.uk 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Smokey@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

If you follow the link and then the "History of Lemmy" link it does get weirdly anti US....

[–] Generic-Disposable@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What does it mean to be "weirdly anti US"?

[–] thoro@lemmy.ml 34 points 1 year ago

Have accurate assessments of US politics, socioeconomics, and foreign policy

[–] Smokey@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Just my feeling read it for yourself I guess

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Being lucid, having a clear view on geopolitics and not just believing any garbage narrative thrown around with no sources.

[–] minimar@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago
[–] ImDonaldDunn@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I don’t have an issue with the developers being Tankies as long as it doesn’t affect the software

[–] edgerunneralexis@dataterm.digital 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Here are some mod logs from lemmy.ml (which is an instance run by the Lemmy devs) from a few years ago: https://raddle.me/f/TankiesGonnaTank/89852/the-lemmy-ml-admin-is-banning-anyone-that-mentions-stalin-or

Here's one of the Lemmy devs (you can tell it's them from their profile activity) denying genocide: https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq954mu/

Insisting that fascists are good, actually not fascists at all, as long as their nationalism makes them oppose the US (because the enemy of my enemy is a totally good guy!): https://old.reddit.com/r/DebateCommunism/comments/vgg2x3/thoughts_on_slavoj_zizek/id2cxb8/

There's more here: https://raddle.me/f/lobby/159606/-/comment/294792

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Insisting that fascists are good, actually not fascists at all, as long as their nationalism makes them oppose the US

Where did they say that? Are you just counting on people not reading the shit you're linking?

I don't expect good faith engagement from people who go around slandering others like this but this is a new low.

Users left Reddit but brought with them the horrible attitude that contributed to ruining that site...

Perhaps, it is possible some communities do follow... uh, whatever that is. (I am oblivious to what a tankie is).

But, like reddit, there will ALWAYS be echo-chambers, or less desirable places/communities.

Remember, the_donald? Despite- that sub basically dominating the top feeds all over reddit, reddit never got ousted over it.

I feel, lemmy will be the same way. There will be... areas you likely want to avoid. As any platform.

I am here for the platform itself, and the communities on it.