this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2025
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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I read the "thin blue line" email and it seems... reasonable and sensible? And seeing how he is so appaled by it makes me question his judgement a bit.
knowing where "thin blue line" comes from, you don't see anything wrong with a maintainer randomly dropping it on the mailing list?
Alright, fair. I was more refering to the content of the message, not the (botched) metaphore of maintainers as a force of order.
ah, fair enough. i guess that's kind of the thing with potential dogwhistles. if you know, you know.
https://archive.org/details/thethinbluelinecomplete
Starring Rowan Atkinson
Its simply the Police in general...
You scrolled half a wiki page to the part that fits your narrative.
The metaphor of a thin blue line is that they "the police" are not in the typical sense very large, like an army, but they do keep the order with a thin presence of rule and order. Sounds like what maintainers do in this case.
i scrolled half a wiki page to link to... facts.
That's not where "it comes from" though. Since if it were,it wouldnt need to be half a page down.
It's associated yes, but not in everybodies mind is that the case.
You imply it comes from:
But you link to a Wikipedia article that says:
I have no idea about this guy's politics, but it's a pretty well known phrase with a lot of different contexts.
we don't live in the 80s though. we live in contemporary times where things have different now meanings to what they did 40 years ago. meanings that might be influenced by recent happenings. hope that helps!
You’re the one who brought up the origin of the term, why would you do that if you’re wanting to refer to the contemporary meaning?
This is just being disingenuous. They clearly mean the origin of the current usage, which is rooted in police "sheepdog" ideology and all that fascist bullshit. Not that the old usage was much better considering the state of police gangs in LA and the kind of laws they were enforcing in the 60s.
I usually see "thin blue line" (and the flag) used by reactionaries, racists, and white nationalists. Especially since BLM. Don't know what sort of politics Ts'o has, other than he's probably not an anarchist (ACAB!), but I guess (benefit of the doubt and all) he could be some ignorant lib with a head full of copaganda, so getting out the code of conduct for racist dogwhistles might be a bit premature.
It comes from The Thin Red Line, which is about some Scottish regiment standing up to a Russian cavalry charge. Even if you don't know that, it seems quite obviously a military metaphor, and that indicates a militaristic view of what policing should be like, veneration of the police as heroes, and total ignorance about what the police actually are and do.
That's highly subjective. Remember this is a global resource with environments different from your own.
I fail to see how anyone could interpret what can only refer to holding the line as not a heroic act and a military metaphor. And that's how it's used, and that's what it means, and that's where it comes from.
And Ts'o clearly knows this as well, since it he appropriately uses it as a metaphor for keeping chaos at bay and out of the kernel.
In the same way a swastika is no longer linked to an ancient peace symbol.
A thin line between chaos and order. That line is blue if it's the police.
Tell me you are only familiar with stuff going on with the US and nowhere else without telling me.
How does this comment say anything about that?
Its literally the first thing in the wiki page. "Line" between apposing forces is the "order". ie Mantainers in this case.
The first time I heard the phrase was from a TV show with Mr Bean when I was like 9 or 10.
As another commenter said, I think the article guy is a bit sensitive or took it the wrong way, since "the thin blue line" when talking about maintainers is very much like they are acting as defense to "outside" forces. Whether that is good or bad for Linux, is debated.
You're talking about the US police. A lot of the world have police forces that serve the people.
I'm not just talking about the US police. I've never been to the US, and I assure you the police is shit here too. Ts'o is American, and that "thin blue line" saying seems especially American or Anglo. I've never heard that over here. So I'm not sure how that's even relevant to the discussion.
BLM and ACAB are very American centric movements/sentiments. Hence why I took your comments to be American focused.
Whilst I've heard the phrase "thin blue line" before, it's never been something associated with racist overtones or subjugative ones in my experience. More that the police is a small community protecting the larger population.
As such, someone using it context of not allowing the proliferation something is reasonable, if possibly histrionic in this case.
Going to need you to cite your sources on that one. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/the-major-flaw-with-racial-charge-against-sam-kerr-that-shouldve-seen-the-case-abandoned/news-story/62e5fad93d835c9f432923375e5e833d
A few months ago (Oct 18 2024) Linus and his sidekick signing the kernel, not only admitted they were going to comply with US Stat.Dep. doctrine and remove developers (on long term good standing) on the basis of nationality and national origin of the employers, they exploded into a rant, clearly admitting to being nationalist and in distrorting history to fit their rhetoric. In greenwashing nationalism (you can say racism underlying this national hate speech) into the base of most open and free code, nationalism now is not free as in beer it is free as in "freedom"? This is as large of a difference as socialism and ethno-socialism.
The linux community .. the end user ... DOESN'T give a damn, only wants the latest and badest of development in his gaming machine.
Once you make a slip and slide exception you can't prevent any more in the future. First will be "justified nationalism", then "not so justified racism", then "sexism", then will be the gas chambers for anyone who forks anything away from Führera (Fedora + Führer).
If using any kernel later than 10 18 2024 I see it as the nationalist/racist fork. I expect the original to continue by developers who don't use race/ethnicity/gender as a basis for accepting/rejecting contributors.
Are you referring to the time they kicked out a bunch of people employed by the companies associated with the Russian government and that are under direct sanctions for supporting the war?
People are not under sanctions, and no linux developer worked for the Russian government, and since when has a war affected who works on what open source project. There are wars all over the place all the damn time ..
I am not talking about the sanctions, I am talking about the additional remarks on how nationalist and racist both the leaders of the project appeared to be from their statements.
Companies are under sanctions. Companies that are connected to the Russian government. Government that is actively wages a terrible unjust war. A war that shouldn't happen.
People who are working in those companies were banned for the duration of them working for and supporting companies that are under sanctions.
If that's a problem for you you are being obtuse either on purpose or, I hope, because you're underinformed.
This war was forced into Russia due to the blocking and surrounding it with NATO bases clearly against it, and by trying to block and substitute its primary exports to EU.
The violent overthrow of the then democratic government in Ukraine, the arming, training, and directing a Neo-Nazi para-military unit to take over, after forcing half the political parties in being illegal, had nothing to do with Russia. If there is someone underinformed, confused, and lacking historical facts it is not me, and better change your arrogant tone if you seriously want to discuss something and not just throw propaganda mud.
Oh, here it is. I was waiting when the pretense will go away. 15 рублей получишь в кассе.
if you have a rational argument please translate it, if you have run out respect the rest of the discussion and keep it in English
I had zero respect for putinsuckers from the beginning, and since you just outed yourself as one, this "discussion" ended.
Don't take me wrong, I hate Putin just as much as I hate Biden or Trump, don't misinterpret what I say
But between hating Trump and discriminating against you because you are from Nebraska is the difference between a racist and a non-racist ...
Something the linux-duo-Fins can not separate, hence their delirium with nationalist rhetoric and lack of historical understanding.
I think your wires finally crossed. This was the response of a madman.
I think you need to be banned you troll, you are nothing but a time waster offering nothing but characterizations in a rational discussion