this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
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[–] socsa@piefed.social 24 points 17 hours ago (5 children)

It's not like China is going to stop making weapons if I refuse to make weapons.

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

"I can't force the world to behave as I would like it, so I may as well not have morals"

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

You know, every country has an army. Either their own, or another country's...

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

Ask the dead about honour

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 25 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

My parents said the same thing about air pollution and carbon emissions

[–] socsa@piefed.social 16 points 15 hours ago

I suppose the difference is that a country doesn't just get conquered by force if it stops polluting.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Almost all pollution is by industries and not your parents, so...

If anything you could criticize them if they voted to keep the pollution going.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Buying a big SUV, shopping at h&m, eating red meat multiple times a week, and flying to the other side of the world during summer, are all worse than voting for climate change. Companies don't pollute for the sake of it.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Check out the EPA's stats on ghg emissions at this LINK. 28% of emissions total are from non-agriculture/shipping transportation, and if you break that down then 57% of the 28% are light duty vehicles, all larger road vehicles are 23%, and aircraft are 9%.

Since 2005 emissions carbon-equivalent total of the USA has fallen about a billion metric tons thanks to awareness and federal programs to reduce and eliminate emissions, almost exclusively in the Electrical Power sector.

So even if you cut out all consumer non-business transport you're left with 72% of emissions. A person who votes to curttail polution does more good than a person who drives a hybrid.

[–] PetteriSkaffari@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

Hybrids don't reduce CO2 emissions that much anyway. Better to go all electric and vote for climate protection.

[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

yeah this is a really stupid argument

"It's not like Israël is gonna stop killing Palestinians if I refuse to kill Palestinians"

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

I mean

That's true tho, pretty much nobody else murders Palestiniains but Israel still does.

Change on all of these scales has to come from societies around the world, not from individuals.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

pretty much nobody else murders Palestiniains but Israel still does.

https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies

Shortly after Oct. 7, the U.S. government started transferring massive amounts of weapons to Israel. By Dec. 25, Israel received more than 10,000 tons of weapons in 244 cargo planes and 20 ships from the U.S. These transfers included more than 15,000 bombs and 50,000 artillery shells within just the first month and a half. These transfers have been deliberately shrouded in secrecy to avoid public scrutiny and prevent Congress from exercising any meaningful oversight. Between October and the beginning of March, the U.S. approved more than 100 military sales to Israel, but publicly disclosed only two sales. A list of known U.S. arms transfers is maintained by the Forum on the Arms Trade.

Much of these weapons were purchased using U.S. taxpayers’ money through the Foreign Military Sales program, while some were direct commercial sales purchased through Israel’s own budget. An undisclosed amount of weapons was also transferred from U.S. military stockpiles already stored in Israel, known as War Reserves Stock Allies-Israel (WRSA-I). The use of WRSA-I to provide Israel with weapons serves to further obfuscate the full picture of U.S. arms transfers, as there is no public record of these stockpiles' inventory.

...

This is a form of corporate welfare not only for the largest weapons manufacturers, like Lockheed Martin, RTX, Boeing, and General Dynamics, which have seen their stock prices skyrocket, but also for companies that are not typically seen as part of the weapons industry, such as Caterpillar, Ford, and Toyota (see below).

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not saying the US government and US citizens aren't contributing, but almost nobody, and I did specify that earlier, is going to get out of their chair, fly to Israel, and pull the trigger. At the end of the day, Israelis are the ones killing people no matter where the weapons come from. Whether or not each individual american decides to fly to palestine to commit a war crime doesn't have any impact on the war crimes being committed: votes do.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

almost nobody, and I did specify that earlier, is going to get out of their chair, fly to Israel, and pull the trigger

Why would you need to fly to Israel when you can pilot a drone bomber from Langley?

[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 14 hours ago

yes but I'm saying that doesn't mean you should just start killing Palestinians as well

[–] jfrnz@lemm.ee 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Doesn’t make you any less responsible when the fruits of your labor are used to murder civilians.

[–] stoicmaverick@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

What if I have only ever worked constructively on anti-missile defense systems?

[–] jfrnz@lemm.ee 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

That’s a harder question to answer and depends more on your own moral compass. Do you believe that having better defensive capabilities empowers the users of your creation to feel safe enough to do evil things? I certainly don’t think you could absolve the makers of anti-missile systems who supply militaries that are committing genocide.

[–] BigMikeInAustin@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

Such as if Trump would start to send anti-missile systems to Russia.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

If we don't build the bombs dropped on Gaza, China will.

[–] pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Israel builds weapons so they could do it themselves

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies

Between October and the beginning of March, the U.S. approved more than 100 military sales to Israel, but publicly disclosed only two sales. A list of known U.S. arms transfers is maintained by the Forum on the Arms Trade.

Much of these weapons were purchased using U.S. taxpayers’ money through the Foreign Military Sales program, while some were direct commercial sales purchased through Israel’s own budget. An undisclosed amount of weapons was also transferred from U.S. military stockpiles already stored in Israel, known as War Reserves Stock Allies-Israel (WRSA-I). The use of WRSA-I to provide Israel with weapons serves to further obfuscate the full picture of U.S. arms transfers, as there is no public record of these stockpiles' inventory.

...

This is a form of corporate welfare not only for the largest weapons manufacturers, like Lockheed Martin, RTX, Boeing, and General Dynamics, which have seen their stock prices skyrocket, but also for companies that are not typically seen as part of the weapons industry, such as Caterpillar, Ford, and Toyota (see below).

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I wonder how many arms companies aren't involved with Israel.

[–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Potentially the prosthetic arm companies

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

When you realize they actually have an adverse incentive to support indiscriminate bombardment...