I've been playing more GoG games with Lutris + Wine in Linux than Steam games with Proton and I even have one situation of a game were the copy I bought in Steam doesn't work with Proton, but the pirated copy I downloaded to see if that would work runs absolutely fine with Lutris + Wine.

For me at least it's actually easier to sort problems out with games when using Lutris + Wine than it is with Proton and I can even make sure all games I run from Lutris are wrapped in a "firejail" sandbox, which amongst other things blocks all network access, something I can't do with Proton.

It's a vendor-tied solution meant to keep you in the Steam ecosystem, so for all the great work they did in past getting it to have broad compatibility, the future is not Proton, it's Wine.

[–] BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’ve set several things from GoG up using Lutris. But in Steam it’s a two step process:

Click Install
Click Play

I want that level of ease from GoG.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Lutris has GoG integration and it's exactly that same 2 step process if you use it (I believe it passes you through 3 screens of options were you invariably do nothing but click "Continue", so strictly it's 5 steps were 3 of the are just "Press Continue")

The difference is that when it does NOT just work, it's easier to figure out and there are more options to fix it with Lutris + Wine.

I even have some weird weird cases on Steam - like Borderlands 2 were Steam would often and randomly, before actually starting the game spend almost 1h doing shader conversions that if you stopped it the game would fail to start (the solution was to force an older Proton version and now you just get random downloads from the Internet that last a few minutes before the game starts).

IMHO, here too what one sees is the general design philosophy difference between open source software and corporate solutions - the former gives you tons of options and lots of ways to tune it so it looks more complicated to use and has a steeper learning curve but that also means when things go wrong you have a lot more ways to try to fix it, whilst the latter is click & play until things go wrong and then you have very little info and just a few things you can change to try and fix it.

Mind you, Lutris itself seems to be an attempt to also be click & play (hence why you generally get a steam-like experience if you use its GoG integration) but all the "buttons and knobs" are still there (those 3 screens of options that's usually fine to just press "Continue" on that I mentioned above) just in case you want to muck about with them, making it look daunting to use.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago

Heroic gets a lot closer in this regard.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Proton in Steam is absolutely easier. Lutris just automates work that some other user did, and if you're doing it in something like Heroic launcher instead, you have to figure that out yourself. It often involves things like installing other Microsoft components that are bundled with the application on Steam, and in one case, even though the game was verified on Steam, there was no Lutris script, and I just couldn't get it working on the GOG version.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Proton too just automates the work that somebody did in the form of install instructions, same as Lutris.

The difference is that those making the install scripts for Proton are paid for and you don't get the option to fix them or make your own, which means that there are in fact fewer games with Steam install instructions (i.e. Steam Support) than games with Lutris install scripts.

Further, there are fewer things you can tweak in Proton and they're all either changing the proton version or some badly documented text parameters that get fed to its command line, whilst Lutris actually has most such options in menus: the learning curve for just starting a game is lower in Steam that in Lutris when it works but the learning curve for fixing it when it does not work is lower in Lutris and sometimes you simply don't have access to change what's needed to fix it in Steam but you do in Lutris.

If you use Lutris with its GoG integration the experience is generally the same kind of Click & Play as Proton of Steam and whilst the rate of problems seems to still be a bit bigger in Lutris, surprisingly (at least for me) it's not by much.

For me in Lutris having to go and install Microsoft components using Winetricks is generally only needed for some standalone installer executables, not when using GoG integration.

Steam is great when it works and a massive headache and pretty limited on what you can do when it doesn't, whilst at least with GoG integration Lutris is great when it works and still a headache when it doesn't but not as much as Steam and it gives you a lot more options to try and get it to work, plus the coverage of pre-made installer scripts in Lutris (which is what makes games "just work" in it) seems to be broader than in Steam, including covering older and more obscure titles, plus that coverage is probably growing faster because the scripts are user contributed rather than the work that can be done adding support being limited by how many people Valve (who are notorious for having very few employees for a company that size) hired to work on it.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Paying someone else to do it and verify that it works is exactly part of why I parted with my money in the first place. At least GOG has a very generous refund policy, but it's a lot more work on my end.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Oh, absolutely.

The point I'm making is that with its process Lutris + Wine are scaling up much faster to seamlessly make all sorts of Windows games Click & Play in Linux, than Steam can or even will try to (don't expect Steam to get around to cover older games that aren't successful AAA titles).

It's the same old same old, open source software solution vs closed corporate software solution that happens in so many other domains: the open source one starts clunky and quirky and it will always tend towards the side of "giving users enough rope to hang themselves with" (too many option, many very powerful) whilst the closed corporate one will from the very start be slick and easier to use but very limited when it comes to what users can do to customize it or even fix it when it doesn't work, but over time and if it manages to survive the open source one will be better and far more capable and flexible than the corporate one simply because contributions to it scale up with interest in it and number of users whilst that's not so for the corporate one.

It's what you see with for example Blender vs Adobe's suit of 3D modelling programs or Linux vs Windows (if it weren't for the well entrenched ecosystem of Windows-only applications, I doubt Windows would still be around).

That's why I think something like Lutris + Wine are the future, not Proton integrated into the Store application of Steam.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But really what I'm asking for, as a customer, is for GOG to do this work for me before I buy. Because it's all open source, there's nothing stopping them. Valve pumped a bunch of money into the projects to improve things for everyone, but they're still doing more work on their end.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Valve is a much, much bigger company than GoG, plus Valve's Linux strategy is really a "have our own console on the cheap" strategy.

But yeah, GoG should be doing more for gaming on Linux, maybe not as much as Valve but proportionally so. At the moment they're doing almost nothing at all: they have Linux offline installers available for games which do support Linux directly, but that's it.

So whilst I find it unrealistic to expect that GoG should be contributing to gaming on Linux as much as Valve, I do agree they should be doing more.

PS: Mind you, I'm not trying to make the case that GoG is perfect and Steam is shit, I'm trying to make the case that open and flexible to use is better than closed and tightly integrated with a specific store, which is why I generally prefer GoG with their offline installers, as well as Lutris + Wine (quite independently of GoG) and would be happy enough even if Lutris had no GoG integration since long before moving my gaming rig to Linux I had the habit of downloading and using the offline installers and did not at all use GoG Galaxy.

If there's one thing that 30 years of being a Software Engineer have taught me is that you want your system to be as decoupled as possible from any business, because even if they are nice at the moment that's no guarantee that at a later date they won't leverage people having their systems integrated with theirs to take advantage of their customers (the phenomenon of enshittification being a good example of that).