this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2024
271 points (94.4% liked)

World News

39385 readers
2312 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Saleh@feddit.org 22 points 2 months ago (4 children)

A temporary ceasefire is the first stop to a permanent ceasefire.

If Israel wants to win militarily against Hezbollah, i'd say Gaza is a cautionary tale for that. Despite all of the destruction Hamas is weakened but nut destroyed and only very few hostages were freed by force (with insane numbers of Palestinian civillians killed while doing it). The vast majority of hostages was freed by negotiations.

John Mearsheimer said that military action is a very limited tool. We have seen this in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam...

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

In Afghanistan and Iraq we already knew that bombing people was not how you get rid of ideas. That's why we spent 20 and 10 years (respectively) in those countries. We weren't bombing anything if we could help it. And in Iraq we managed to put in a semi-stable government. In Afghanistan we managed to push the majority of the fighting into the mountains, away from most civilian population centers. We just straight screwed up the civil part afterwards.

We learned that bombing doesn't kill morale in World War 1, World War 2, Korea, and Vietnam. Vietnam is the last time we tried carpet bombing civilian populations, and is often cited as the reason we developed the guided bomb kits, small diameter bombs, and even kamikaze drones that specifically do not explode and cause as little disturbance as possible other than people they directly impact.

This has been a learned lesson with a known solution for decades.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Gaza is a cautionary tale for that

Just like with Vietnam, it seems the measure of success is in blood. Since the population of Gaza has been decimated - quite literally 1 in 10 Palestinians are now dead and we're expecting tens to hundreds of thousands more dead before the end of next year due to famine and disease, nevermind war - while the Israelis report minimal casualties, they believe they are "winning".

We have seen this in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam…

The lesson of these wars to the political class is that they win reelections, they generate enormous profits, and they never seem to bother the median voter over the long term.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

A temporary ceasefire is the first stop to a permanent ceasefire.

One of Hezbollah's stated goals is the "liberation of Israel".

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 9 points 2 months ago

And Likud wants Israel to be "from the river to the sea". More extreme Israelis want a "greater Israel" from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, to Iraq through Syria up until Turkey.

But if we want to achieve peace we need to deescalate things, then establish justice and drive the extremists out. The only alternative to deescalation is a great war, that would kill and displaces millions of people and quite possibly start world war 3.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Well yes, because Israel still occupies Lebanese land.