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Supportive dad (lemy.lol)
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[-] june@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 15 hours ago

Gender abolitionism usually focuses on roles and rigidity surrounding it, not the idea that we will eventually have no actual genders. Gender is biologically real but all the social constructs surrounding it are not. If this is not what you have read, I'm interested in links.

But there is no world in which I am not a woman - but very much a world where I am happy to reject the social constructs built up around womanhood.

I still posit that anyone that can actually change their gender (not realize it and change presentation and potentially roles) was gender fluid in the first place.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 1 points 14 hours ago

This reasoning errs much too close to bio-essentialism for me, it's the same line of thinking that leads people to "you have to have dysphoria or you're not trans".

[-] june@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I believe all trans people. I do believe that all trans people have gender dysphoria (otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to transition) though many do not recognize it and believe they are trans (which they are) but do not experience dysphoria (which they do). Think of this in a pure motivation sense. One does not make major life changes without something informing that decision, which is what dysphoria is.

I am seriously interested in gender abolitionist takes that aren't just abolishing the strict roles/styles/behaviors affiliated with gender. I don't think you can provide this, because gender abolitionists do believe people have an intrinsic gender (or rather, one may have an intrinsic gender, wrt agender individuals) they just don't believe that one's gender should be defined by someone else and that a lot of the roles and behaviors attributed to gender are regressive and need abolished. To which I agree. I am a woman but I am not gender conforming (rarely wear dresses or skirts, present relatively butch, and reject all gender roles).

Your rigid line of thinking here could easily convince someone that conversion therapy is a reasonable treatment for gender dysphoria, which it most certainly is not. Because why would it not be, if it could work? My answer to that is that my intrinsic gender is too much a part of me to rip out: you can't change my gender. I would not be me if you tore my gender out of me.

Frankly, I'm kind of growing tired of discussing trans issues with cis people, especially when they keep telling me I'm biased ("I know why you're so defensive about this"). I have a gender, if you don't then that is good for you, but you can't take my gender from me. Please genuinely consider that this is based on my life experiences, whereas your view is informed second hand on others' lived experiences, if you wish to continue this discussion with me.

this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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