if its acceptable to force javascript onto the backend and everywhere else, then why not write the frontend in rust, or anything else than can compile to wasm ?

[–] BatmanAoD@programming.dev 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

WASM has no native ability to access most web APIs, including the DOM. JavaScript is literally unavoidable on the front end.

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

javascript cannot be compiled natively for the backend or desktop either...

also libraries like wasm bindgen allow a developer to write almost no javascript. and i wouldnt could a few lines of bootstrapping.

im dont advocate for wasm when its not necessary. nor do i advocate for backend js when its not necessary.

[–] BatmanAoD@programming.dev 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I'm not sure what your point is. I realize that you can almost completely avoid JavaScript, but the point I'm making is merely that there is a real technical limitation that limits the choices developers can make for front-end code, and although WASM is making great strides in breaking down that barrier (something I've been thrilled to see happen, but which is going much more slowly than I had hoped), the limitation is still there. Conversely, such a barrier has never existed on the backend, except in the sense that C limits what all other languages can do.

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

my point is that languages have their places.

javascript is great for the frontend. not just because it's the only choice, but it's also a lot easier to write code for ui than say, C or rust.

however i do not see a reason why it needs to run on servers or desktop apps, bar a few cases. i know node is popular, but i think fullstack devs just like to have everything in the same language, even if it makes it harder to use and slower to run.

likewise C, rust, go, whatever, are great for backends, embedded etc, but they shouldnt be ran on in the browser, unless there is a specific reason like heavy computation with little dom interaction.

just because a barrier does not exist doesnt mean that we should write programs in a language not designed for the domain.

[–] BatmanAoD@programming.dev 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm honestly not convinced JavaScript is good even for the front-end, because it's intentionally designed to swallow, ignore, and otherwise minimize errors; which is not helpful at all for development of any software. My point is that the only reason JavaScript is dominant in front-end development is that, prior to WASM, it was literally the only option; if that hadn't been the case, I doubt it would have become nearly so widely used.

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 months ago

i actually agree, but i think its more the issue that modern websites are designed like desktop apps. having a weakly typed and flexible langauage like js is fine when youre only adding a little interactivity to an otherwise mostly functional website.