this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
55 points (58.5% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26831 readers
1357 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Even from people that never lived in a communist state

edit: im 17 and i hate communism

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Hypx@fedia.io 14 points 6 months ago (4 children)

There are very few real communists left. On here, it’s going to be pretty much all tankies.

[–] xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 months ago

There are dozens of us!

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

I'd definitely describe myself as a communist, but I do realize we never had a proper communist state on this planet, just authoritarian states that acted like communists to win over the workers. Capitalism needs to be regulated as fuck to create a fair society, so for now, I strive for socialism, because I understand going straight to communism probably won't work.

Sorry if this was uncalled for, I just wanted to show there are sensible communists who don't excuse Russia and China for the shit they're pulling. But neither do I excuse the west for a lot of shit we are pulling.

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Those states would agree that they have not achieved communism, and they would agree that they are authoritarian, namely the dictatorship of the proletariat. Lenin, 1917, The State and Revolution

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Let's just skip the euphemisms and use 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

There is a euphemism for dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, and it is bourgeois democracy.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Bourgeois democracy is a separate term. It can describe something like European nations voting between which bourgeoisie will rule the proletariat. The more you know.

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

The more you know.

Even NATOPedia thinks they’re synonyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_bourgeoisie

The only time they’re not synonyms is when the capitalist class finds kayfabe democracy insufficient, at which point they deploy fascism. That’s what’s been developing in many Western capitalist states around the world in recent years. The working class is more and more agitated by their deteriorating conditions under neoliberalism. Even the petit bourgeois feel threatened. The far-right surge isn’t organic, though: the capitalist class fuels it to maintain their position.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You scratch some accuratish points now that the comment is redone from the pre-edit slip-up.

Let's sum it all to the audience: Western capitalist states are being agitated with far-right surges by the Eastern capitalist states to cause internal instability with have the same foreign sources, and yes, targeting to mislead the working classes. Even the "moderate" right wingers let that happen because they'd rather have fascists in power than lose capitalism.

Basically capitalists are infighting between the previous topic of bourgeois democracy & bourgeois dictatorship camps. East and West have integrated fascism in their systems, just with slightly different methods. Western capitalism that voting makes a difference, eastern capitalism lies that their dictatorships are something else and just a facade of fascism.

Both are pretty obvious 'open secrets' / kayfabe. Even the states don't act like this with straight faces and many from the populations see through it all (and displays fascist state lie parrots as pretty comical — but it just bolsters the suffering). The critical mass is still in theater mode, which is enough for the oligarchies as it prevents revolutionary action.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

There is a clear contradiction in this comment.

Capitalism needs to be regulated as fuck to create a fair society, so for now, I strive for socialism, because I understand going straight to communism probably won’t work.

Isn't this the exact reasoning behind China's market reforms, beginning under Deng Xiaoping?

If we take this poster at their word, then their disagreement with modern China is not ideological in nature!

Does that mean their disagreement is about the practical implementation? Of course not! That would contradict a key piece of evidence: This World Bank report!

According to the report, 800 million Chinese people have been lifted out of poverty - accounting for three quarters of worldwide poverty reduction! No reasonable person could called that a failed implementation!

If this poster really supports a transitional phase of regulated markets, then why would they be condemning China for successfully implementing the very approach they advocate for?

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It might have worked in that regard but at what cost? An authoritarian state that commits genocide inside it's own borders, so yes it clearly failed in the regard that it does not treat everyone equally, a core principle of real communism.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

An authoritarian state that commits genocide inside it’s own borders

Hold it!

Do you have evidence to support this testimony?

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

It doesn't matter whether it actually fits the definition of genocide. Human rights get abused there, which is well documented and agreed upon by several sources. That means there is no equality and thus no communism in China.

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Your genocide assertion I won't touch because it's untouchable on lemmy.world.

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Look man, whether its a genocide or not doesn't matter. The human rights abuse is well documented and agreed upon by many independent parties. The point is, there is no equality there. So it can't be actual communism, despite them claiming that it is.

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] meekah@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Who cares what the exact number is? Of course China says they're just trying to help people, why would they say anything else? But you don't need watchtowers to help people get educated right?

And that AMA thing... It's an information war. Even the US wouldn't be stupid enough to use the real name of someone for that. I feel like it's more likely someone was trying to discredit the genocide claims with that.. Just throwing the name into aechive.org is too easy.

It's certainly difficult to tell what's really going on from here. But usually there is more abuse going on than one would like to think, no matter where you look.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 6 months ago

Yeah, unfortunate but true...

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee -5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Global news communities in instances like beehaw or lemmy.world seem to have predominantly communist and leftist posters. The nazbols congregate on their own famous three instances.

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Show me a single comment on Hexbear or lemmy.ml or lemmygrad that promotes nazbols or patsocs or MAGA communists or LaRouchites like Dugin or Hinkle or Haz or Maupin.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Or Juche, Maoism, Leninism, Stalinism...

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Given your false reports to the authorities, it seems you like authoritarianism after all.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Were the reports false or were the authoritarians false?

What does a decision to rely on ad hominem display... A deeper stalking would brittle it down tho

[–] diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago

Sure. That's a phrase which also works. And when English isn't everyone's first, or even second, language, either way is fine as long as the intended message is interpreted somewhat