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Im referring more to places where you don't technically have the right to have the lawyer sit in the interview nor is there a hard and fast 5th amendment. Like you don't have to talk but they're basically allowed to verbally pull teeth once a phone call with a lawyer is completed (where they just read "don't say anything" remotely and hang up on you)
I'm not the person you replied to, but I am confused as to what you mean. You don't have to invoke the fifth amendment in order to not speak with police (the fifth amendment is more used in court), but you always have the right to have an attorney present when speaking with police in the US.
courts have found that simply being silent can be a confession. you must explicitly state you are exercising your right to be silent.
Yes, absolutely. You do have to say that. You don't have to expressly invoke the fifth amendment. You have to invoke your right to be silent. These are two separate things.
Which is absurd when the right is to be silent.
Welcome to the US justice system.
your right against self incrimination includes a right to be silent. it's not separate: it's inclusive
You have to actively and affirmatively express you want a lawyer and to remain silent for it to count.
Just being quiet or saying something like “I “think” I need a lawyer has been ruled not to count.”
Yes, that is what I said.
Ya i mean outside US
Ah, that will do it. Sorry to hear your country doesn't afford the right to have an attorney present. That's at least one thing we've got right here.
Your criminal penalties and the severity of the average crime seems to demand such rights.
I will say however, like, sometimes I wish some of our more extreme offenders got charged by the US instead of domestically cuz we don't seriously hold accountable many shockingly extreme offenders who are basically never going to not be an insane risk to the public away for any relevant timeframe, and they almost always get bail
I don't know where you're from, but I've read plenty of examples of horrific rapists and murderers in other countries getting only a few years of prison time and then being released. That happens here as well, but I very much approve of the more egregious cases being given prolonged sentences. It's not about punishment; it's about protecting the populace from predators.
That said, we really need to reduce most prison sentences here in the US. So yes, we do very much need the law to allow us to have attorneys present when speaking with police because they will nail you for whatever they can get away with.