Plus what he is talking about applies to basically factory farming. Same thing with chicken eggs. In a small farm setup they mostly live out their productive lives. Granted when unproductive they tend to lose their life although I suppose some softies will hang onto them as sorta pets.

[–] threeduck@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I like the idea that we can end life as soon as it's deemed "unproductive". You'd hope an alien life form that finds us is more empathetic than that wouldn't you.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not necessarily. I want the right to die as a human. I would rather die like my dogs than my parents.

[–] threeduck@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I... don't understand your point, are you being purposefully vague? How did you parents die that wasn't preferable to your dogs?

In the case of this argument, if an alien species did land on earth and treat us like cattle for food (based on our own subjugation of "lesser species"), are you saying that's fine because you "want the right to die"?

I really really don't get what you're trying to say here.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Im saying the life of an animal that is kept through its productive years could be a lot worse. I have had to put down dogs because their quality of life was just to poor and you can't do that with humans. Do the farm animals on a small farm that values their animals die sooner. Yeah. But its still a pretty decent life and longer than the wild would typically give them. If an alien species treated us like cattle they would have to be powerful enough to and if they were there is little we could do about it because after all we would do everything we can. Granted they would know we had reading, writing, and arithmetic and had developed chemistry, physcics, and had at this point started editing our genetic code. With the power they would presumably wield this would be something they would have to debate with themselves and only they could leave us free or not. I mean if we wanted we could have monkey farms or dolphin. Honestly the best arguments I have heard for those are from vegans who push that its all the same anyway so if your not going vegan you might as well eat meat every single meal.

[–] threeduck@aussie.zone 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah okay, thanks for the explanation.

I think a lot of your argument boils down to "Us vs Nature", that the farm life of a cow is preferable to what might happen in the wild.

Don't forget that male cow (steer) are typically killed on their first birthday, with some pasturalised cattle getting to live until 3. A cow is meant to live until 15-20. Male chickens are ground up or gassed upon birth. Dairy cows are kept constantly pregnant and separated from calves until they dry up and are no longer profitable by which time they're immediately slaughtered. Sows are kept in sow stalls so cramped they can't physically move, often never seeing daylight their entire life.

I think I'd take freedom over that.

If an alien species does come down, you'd hope they'd be more moral than us humans and wouldn't factory farm us huh.

I don't advocate for a complete vegan diet to start with if you can't. Every meal you don't eat meat is better for you, the animal and the planet. Substituting ingredients is easy, especially with fake mince - it's probably the best faux meat there is.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Male cattle used to be used for the plow. Again its a modern thing to just kill them. Male chickens are another matter as there was not much use for more than one and they tended to fight. Sows again your talking the modern factory farming thing. Yeah I was trying to cut out one animal at a time and my goal was only eggs and cheese but I have given up given how much I hear from folks its all the same and just as bad. Its pretty hard to stay motivated honestly and I simply have not been able to eat vegan meal after meal. I used to think the vampires shows were the "good" vampire fell off the wagon and drained humans was dumb but my experiences cutting out meat makes me think if I was a vampire I would likely be drinking humans.