this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2023
419 points (100.0% liked)

/kbin meta

2 readers
1 users here now

Magazine dedicated to discussions about the kbin itself. Provide feedback, ask questions, suggest improvements, and engage in conversations related to the platform organization, policies, features, and community dynamics. ---- * Roadmap 2023 * m/kbinDevlog * m/kbinDesign

founded 1 year ago
 

@ernest how do I report a Magazin on kbin.social ? There is a usere called "ps" who is posting to his own "antiwoke" Magazin on kbin.social. Please remove this and dont give them a chance to etablish them self on kbin.social. When I report his stuff it will go to him because he is the moderator of the magazin? Seems like a problem. Screenshot of the "antiwoke" Magazin /sub on kbin.social. 4 Headlines are visible, 2 exampels: "Time to reject the extrem trans lobby harming our society" "How to end wokeness" #Moderation #kbin #kbin.social 📎

edit: dont feed the troll, im shure ernest will delet them all when he sees this. report and move on.

Edit 2 : Ernest responded:
"I just need a little more time. There will likely be a technical break announced tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Along with the migration to new servers, we will be introducing new moderation tools that I am currently working on and testing (I had it planned for a bit later in my roadmap). Then, I will address your reports and handle them very seriously. I try my best to delete sensitive content, but with the current workload and ongoing relocation, it takes a lot of time. I am being extra cautious now. The regulations are quite general, and I would like to refine them together with you and do everything properly. For now, please make use of the option to block the magazine/author."

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] static@kbin.social 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

A single shitposter, with only downvoted posts. without attention they would have stopped posting, but now it has attention.

While the content is stupid and vile, is he breaking any rules?

[–] SpacemanSpiff@kbin.social 66 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Streisand effect for sure. There seems to be run of these types of posts in the fediverse lately. People don’t seem to realize that sometimes they’re better off letting these situations take their natural course (and die), and not intervene unless it grows beyond manageability.

[–] rastilin@kbin.social 46 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The problem is that by that point it will have grown beyond manageability. You know the "Nazi bar" saying.

There's a bunch of people (who are Nazis) and they seem cool, quiet, well spoken, just having a drink. And they bring their friends and those guys are cool too. Then those guys bring their friends and those guys are less cool and now normal people don't drink at the bar anymore and you look around and it's a Nazi bar and you can't make them leave or they'll start causing "problems". So. I'm all for just using the brutal hammer of censorship.

It's not a free speech platform and no one ever said it was.

[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hate speech is not part of free speech anyways. Fuck nazis. Everyone that gets offended by that can get fucked as well.

[–] rastilin@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Something else that occurred to me. If someone posted something that was pro-woke in /r/conservative or on Parler or any of those other apps, they'd get banned immediately. "Free Speech" only seems to be a concern when it's right-wingers posting on left-leaning forums, never the reverse.

I think that taking the free speech argument at face value in the present day just means you're gullible.

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think hardcore conservatives simply don’t have an inherent sense of empathy. That’s why they don’t really care about the victims of a crime, disaster, etc. until it happens to them personally. They do not have the perspective to put themselves in another person’s shoes.

It’s NOT an intelligence issue. It’s easy to write people off as stupid, but that’s not the case. For them, being unable to think with empathy is as natural as being unable to see infrared light.

They’ve figured out that making themselves appear to be victims can sometimes make people listen, but they can’t fully explain why. That lack of understanding is why they don’t see the hypocrisy in banning people from their platforms, but then whining loudly when they’re treated the same way.

This is all just guesswork, but it’s the best explanation I’ve been able to come up with that doesn’t make my head explode.

[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Cross out the "hardcore", lack of empathy is very much a core part of conservatism no matter which side of conservatism, social | fiscal, you lean into and by how much. If you're socially conservative you want every social aspect to stay as it is which proves inherently a lack of empathy. If you're fiscally conservative you want monetary value to stay as is (in terms of inflation and cost-cutting etc.) no matter whom it hurts (as long as it doesn't hurt you, of course).

Which is why I personally think it actually is (also) an intelligence issue, because the people that are not socially conservative and only fiscally conservative usually vote for the party of big government and military spending (R) which goes against anything fiscally conservative and as a "cool" side effect also proves to be detrimental to social values of different people and groups.

You probably know the quote by George Carlin, as its a told tale as old as day. I think the quote nicely illustrates the voting game in the US.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] AshDene@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It depends on your definition of free speech, the US constitution does consider it part of free speech.

The US constitution also considers free speech a right that protect a websites right not to repeat hate speech, not a users "right" to force a website to host their speech. In the constitutions view of the world free speech is protection against the government, not a tool to force other people to host your speech.

[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I really do not care about your constitution. I'm from Germany not the US.

'"Germany places strict limits on speech and expression when it comes to right-wing extremism" or anything reminiscent of Nazism. Hate speech on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity also is banned in Germany.'

And I think this is the way all countries should handle it. No need to defend people promoting hate speech by debating me or your definition of free speach, I do not adhere by it.

Edit: I will wear 10A(ssholes') downvote as a badge of honor, thank you!

[–] AshDene@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm actually not from the US, I was just giving it as an example because it is the most famous one that unequivocally does include it.

What I'm really saying is "free speech" isn't really one thing. It means different things in different contexts. For instance the breadth of "free speech" you should allow in what you promise to repeat (that's what hosting something is) is much smaller than the breadth of "free speech" that you should not think less of someone for saying is in turn much smaller than the breadth of "free speech" that you should not wield the power of government to punish. And people legitimately disagree on where each of those boundaries lie.

I do think I missed the mark with the comment you replied to rereading it. I raised it because when someone says "It's not a free speech platform and no one ever said it was" they are using the american republican-troll's definition of free speech that means "anything but child porn", and I think your reply was misunderstanding their comment as a result. But I don't think I successfully conveyed my point.

[–] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Everything else aside, how you gonna say you don't care about the US Constitution and then bring up the German Constitution? No one cares about that one either.

[–] backseat@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What is the relevance of the US constitution? This is not a US platform.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] 10A@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I'm no Nazi, but I get your point. What you don't realize is once the bar kicks the Nazis out, they start their own bar, and there their numbers grow. A more intelligent approach is to rationally talk with them, as Daryl Davis has with KKK members.

[–] effingjoe@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

You can't reason a person out of a stance they didn't reason themselves into.

For instance: How would you even begin to reason with someone that believes in demons? Where could any discussion even go if one side can waive away anything they don't agree with by claiming it is a trick from a demon?

[–] hypelightfly@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Your post history already proves your a nazi. You aren't doing a good job of pretending otherwise.

[–] unsophisticated@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I went through 3 pages of their comments and what I‘ve read were respectful and well articulated comments from someone quite religious and with conservative values.

Maybe I missed some extreme stuff but I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys are completely making this up.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] aegisgfx877@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just a general rule of thumb there little guy, when it comes to anything political if you find the nazis are on your side, you are on the wrong side.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] zedtronic@kbin.social 45 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

#1 rule on the internet: don't feed the trolls. Downvote them, block them, move on. They're not here to engage in good faith.

[–] 10A@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

As someone who genuinely does enjoy trolling on rare occasion, I think you misunderstand what a troll is. Speaking sincerely held ideas from across the political spectrum does not make someone a troll. A troll is insincere yet playful. That's not to say I shouldn't be blocked by anyone who wants to block me, but it's not for being a troll in this context.

[–] blightbow@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A troll is insincere yet playful.

I chuckled at least. A troll's motivation for the rise that they seek is largely inconsequential, as is the delivery mechanism. ;) Let's not go and disenfranchise the majority of the internet's trolling population with narrow typecasting!

While we're on the topic of trolling, are you familiar with Sealioning?

Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate", and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called "the most apt description of Twitter you'll ever see".

It's a rhetorical question, no need to respond. Someone else might learn something they didn't know before today. :)

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] smokinjoe@kbin.social 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

and not intervene unless it grows beyond manageability.

I'd rather nip it in the bud. You're just letting things fester.

[–] SpacemanSpiff@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it will become impossible to accomplish, practically speaking, as the fediverse grows. There’s only so much that can be done with volunteers, and it’s not like armies of paid staffers work much better (as we’ve seen the major tech corps try to do).

There is a sociological aspect to this, numerous studies have confirmed the effects of highlighting bad actors. There’s a copycat effect (as studies on mass shootings show) as well as what we call the Streisand effect. Both inadvertently encourage others to perpetuate the behaviour rather than serving to limit it.

[–] icydefiance@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Allowing bad actors to advertise themselves is highlighting them. Banning them and deleting their communities is the opposite of highlighting them.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] smokinjoe@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

So your solution is to just give up and let hate fester? When has appeasement ever worked?

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Where does this sentiment come from? Reddit for the most part already does this. Twitter before Elon showed up did this. Most modern sites already do this

The only place I can think of where this is commonplace is 4chan, because they don't moderate.

Yes, highlighting bad actors over a course of time can be problematic. But the point in this case is the point out that we don't have the tools to deal with said bad actor. The tools that other sites have. It's not being said in vain, the goal is to make aware that something needs to be done so that people don't even see the bad actor to bring attention to them.

There is a purpose to the current efforts. I think everyone understands that constantly bringing attention to them will do no good, but the goal here is to bring attention to tools that are needed, so that it doesn't happen again, or at the very least to this extent.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] slicedcheesegremlin@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The biggest thing im afraid of happening to Kbin/the lemmyverse is that it will end up like Ruqqus, especially now that it seems to be swamped with trolls.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So here's my issue here.

This guy is clearly not a small issue. He's being as loud and obnoxious as possible.

If there's nothing in place to deal with one huge troublemaker, what's to stop a dozen who come to Kbin and start making hateful communities?

My concern at this point is that Kbin itself gets defederated because the other instances don't think it's taking moderation seriously.

[–] SpacemanSpiff@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

In what way is it a huge deal? In what way was it loud? (Until now)

This person had a handful of heavily downvoted posts and interactions so they never made it to the “hot” or “active” pages.

(Are we talking about the same person?)

If you take a poll of everyone in this thread I would bet almost everyone hadn’t seen these posts or heard of the username.

But now they have, with the help of this post.

[–] AshDene@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Speaking for myself I've seen both 10A and ps making these comments. 10A has managed to amass at least -2732 downvotes, ps -653, that's not a trivial amount of interaction. I came across an antiwoke post on the front page (I think just right after it was posted, so bad luck). And I'm holding off advocating people move to kbin until I see a moderating policy that results in banning them.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You missed the whole point.

He said,

what's to stop a dozen who come to Kbin and start making hateful communities?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] 10A@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] mack123@kbin.social 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The rules of the internet remains unchanged, regardless of platform. Do not feed the trolls.

[–] Dagnet@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You are replying to the troll yourself lol

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] kestrel7@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you advocate your own posting taking its natural course and dying off? I can think of a way you can hurry up this process.

[–] mcgravier@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude, he's mocking you all and you don't even get it. The more you scream the more attention you're bringning to his magazine.

You people are hopless.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] wahming@kbin.social 49 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Respectful Behavior

We expect all users to treat each other with respect and kindness. Harassment, hate speech, or any other form of harmful behavior will not be tolerated. We reserve the right to remove any content or user that violates these guidelines.

Isn't this standard for anywhere that doesn't want to end up as T_D or 4chan?

[–] static@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

The posts itself are not rulebreaking, but i could be wrong.
But the reply here is breaking the rules
https://kbin.social/m/antiwoke/t/101045/Time-to-reject-the-extreme-trans-lobby-harming-our-society

That's mostly the problem with those posts, while not rule breaking, they are hate magnets.

If the moderator refuses to properly moderate the comments this would be a proper reason for a ban.

[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Incidentally the person breaking the rules is making the biggest stir in this thread about not banning people.

Guy literally is advocating beating people to death as a good Christian moral while also trying to advocate he shouldn't be banned for it.

[–] 10A@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No, I did not advocate for beating people to death, and I would never advocate for that. Try reading the whole post and not taking a few words out of context.

[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

The whole post was even more disgusting. Others are welcome to read it, Static linked it, but I stand by what I said.

If the devil did exist, he resides in your church, raising monsters.

[–] jonion@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

And these are the people who would lecture about prejudice... Nothing but prejudicial bad faith in this entire thread.

Being a filthy reactionary, I was really hoping that the fediverse could become something like the reddit of 10 years ago, but it seems like the dyed-in-the-wool redditors couldn't help but bring their intolerance with them.

Thank you for actually bothering to stand your ground. God bless.

[–] czech@faux.moe 5 points 1 year ago

They will always advocate for blocking over banning because they can easily make new accounts to spread their hateful message. To block a user you must first read their message; their mission is accomplished.

Should the community have to continually deal with this baggage so that hateful people can intentionally misinterpret what "free speech" means?

[–] wahming@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

they are hate magnets.

And they were posted with the intent to be so. That suffices in my opinion. It's not the lone post itself, but the context of the magazine as a whole.

If the moderator refuses to properly moderate the comments

Yes, the mod of antiwoke is about to exercise proper judgement

[–] smokinjoe@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

What a fuckin psychopath.

[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, one of those examples is

"Time to reject the extrem trans lobby harming our society"

That is a global rule violation on most sites. Hate speech.

[–] PenguinJuice@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Genuinely curious what is hateful about that? Rejecting something does not equal hate or I guess I need to file a claim against universities and friends who rejected me.

[–] Ragnell@kbin.social 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"extreme trans lobby" is a conspiratorial misrepresentation of a group of people who would just like to live their lives.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] AnonTwo@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

Let me take one excerpt from that thread and I want you to ask that again

Homosexuals were regularly taken outside and beaten to a pulp, so it was extremely rare for anyone to think such behavior was acceptable.

And to summarize: He's basically advocating "good Christian morals" as being transphobic.

But also to the original post: It is wording the advocates for trans people as being extremists who are harming our society.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Balssh@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

I disagree: better to kill the evil in its infancy, rather than let it spread and hope it goes away by its own.

load more comments (3 replies)