this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
337 points (100.0% liked)

Privacy Guides

16906 readers
12 users here now

In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.

This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.


You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:

Learn more...


Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We've tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!

Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!


This community is the "official" Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other "Privacy Guides" communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.


Moderation Rules:

  1. We prefer posting about open-source software whenever possible.
  2. This is not the place for self-promotion if you are not listed on privacyguides.org. If you want to be listed, make a suggestion on our forum first.
  3. No soliciting engagement: Don't ask for upvotes, follows, etc.
  4. Surveys, Fundraising, and Petitions must be pre-approved by the mod team.
  5. Be civil, no violence, hate speech. Assume people here are posting in good faith.
  6. Don't repost topics which have already been covered here.
  7. News posts must be related to privacy and security, and your post title must match the article headline exactly. Do not editorialize titles, you can post your opinions in the post body or a comment.
  8. Memes/images/video posts that could be summarized as text explanations should not be posted. Infographics and conference talks from reputable sources are acceptable.
  9. No help vampires: This is not a tech support subreddit, don't abuse our community's willingness to help. Questions related to privacy, security or privacy/security related software and their configurations are acceptable.
  10. No misinformation: Extraordinary claims must be matched with evidence.
  11. Do not post about VPNs or cryptocurrencies which are not listed on privacyguides.org. See Rule 2 for info on adding new recommendations to the website.
  12. General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.

Additional Resources:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 282 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That headline misses the big problem. It's not that Google was forced to give up search history data. If Google gets a warrant, they will comply. The real problem is that the justices acknowledged that the warrant was unconstitutional and permitted the evidence anyway. They claim the police "acted in good faith" while violating the constitution, which is a horrifying precedent.

If you're thinking "alls well that ends well," because they caught the arsonists who murdered a family of five, I can sympathize with that feeling, but consider that the murderer may have his conviction overturned on subsequent appeals.

The police obtained a warrant for everyone who searched for a thing from Google, and the search information was used against the accused in court. 14 states currently outlaw abortion, and there's some cousin-fucking conservative prosecutor in Dipshit, Alabama, just salivating over the prospect of obtaining the IP addresses of every person looking up directions to clinics.

[–] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder how many companies like Cambridge analytica or TPUSA just have access to these. It wouldn't surprise me if there's some social engineering dark arts underground of pretending to be police and getting this data to study

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not long after Dobbs, someone posted a guide on r/WitchesVsPatriarchy on how to securely find* this information without opening yourself up to potential harm. Terrifying that that’s even a thing that needs to exist.

[–] rosymind@leminal.space 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy needs a witches vs patriarchy- or is there one already? Im too lazy to check rn

[–] derin@lemmy.beru.co 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cool, I'm too lazy to answer!

[–] rosymind@leminal.space 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Damn. Guess I'll just have to live in ignorance. (Clearly there's no other choice)

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Ahhh gosh oh golly I guess i better comply with this police warrant" says the company that actively engages in one of the largest tax fraud operations in human history.

[–] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Tax fraud? What am I missing?

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] Clent@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Forced? Not at all. Google happily complied.

Stop using Google products, people. There are alternatives for every service they offer. They haven't invented anything new in over a decade

[–] KISSmyOS@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (11 children)

There are alternatives for every service they offer.

I used to believe that, but what's the alternative for a phone keyboard with swipe typing and speech recognition that actually works?
Or a phone that gets reliable push messages and also works for banking?
Cause I hate Google, but these are things I actually need in my life.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

So, I have a few solutions for this.

First, I use GrapheneOS, so I can continue using Gboard and a few other Google products that do not warrant or require an internet connection, with network access disabled.

Alternatively, the next best keyboard is grammarly (also with network access dsiabled) and you can also use https://voiceinput.futo.org with that one.

[–] techt@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Understanding that you probably paraphrased for brevity, it's hard to respond with anything helpful because only you know where the goalposts of, "actually works," are -- same thing with, "reliable push messages," and, "works for banking." I've used swipe input on the native Samsung keyboard and SwiftKey and found that they work just fine, but not as good as GBoard. If you're going from a Google-invested product to pretty much anything else, it's likely going to be a worse user experience, so you just have to set your expectations appropriately and keep in mind that what you're getting in return for that is intangible but important.

What have you tried so far, and how have they failed you with respect to the metrics you've stated?

[–] KISSmyOS@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Swiftkey isn't a real option for me, it just sends my data to another one of the big 3 tech megacorporations.
What I've tried:

  • Degoogled my phone with UAD and used apps that can run in the background instead of relying on Google Play Services for push. But I kept missing important messages cause push didn't work reliably. It lead to a wild goose chase of which system apps can be disabled and which permissions revoked without losing core functions, none of which is documented properly anywhere. Location only worked outside sometimes and took 3 minutes for a fix. And it still may not even do anything for privacy because the underlying system is made by Google and could just ignore all of my settings.
  • Installed LineageOS. This solved the problems above. But my banking app refused to even launch on it.
  • Gave up, again used a debloated Android but kept Google Play Services and its dependencies intact and just used no Google account or Google apps. Now banking works, push works, location works. But Google still has unlimited root access to my device, contacts, calls, SMS, location, so really what's the point?
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] AlecSadler@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is there a good alternative, maybe locally hosted, for location history?

While I've recently disabled it for Google, it actually was helpful for going back in time and remembering where I was on X day, on numerous occasions. Would be cool if there was a locally hosted, open source alternative.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stop using Google products, people. There are alternatives for every service they offer.

Unfortunately many of the products they offer are a requirement for daily life.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (14 replies)
[–] smeg@feddit.uk 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

the police acted in good faith, meaning the evidence will be allowed in court despite the warrant being legally flawed

I have no knowledge (or particular interest) in USA laws, but I guess that judges making this decision is a statement of future intent. I guess if you don't want to be tracked then don't use services which track you!

[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

this just means the cops can do anything??

i mean shit i guess they can here anyway, but it's stunning to see that written down. oh they thought they were doing the right thing? oh that's fine then

[–] snooggums@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

Even worse, the court said what they did was wrong but they get to use the result anyway.

[–] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Over a decade ago they had devices called "sting ray" that act like antenna. It captures all text messages in the area.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In Colorado, until a new law overides the ruling, google must reveal your search history when subpoenaed. This doesn’t affect surrounding states or federal law until their own judges make a ruling or politicians make a law.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

The issue here is not that they are required to reveal search history of suspects, the issue is that the police is browsing the search history of everyone in order to find a suspect. That's not what warrants are for and violates the constitutional rights of nearly everyone they searched.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Opposite actually. The court decision says that all future reverse keyword search warrants in Colorado will have their evidence thrown out. This one, however, didn't have precedent so the police acted in good faith.

[–] nolannice@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never ask Google a question you wouldn't also ask the feds!

[–] bappity@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

Never ask Google a question. ~~you wouldn't also ask the feds!~~

FTFY

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

search warrant that required Google to provide the IP addresses of anyone who had searched for the address of a home within the previous 15 days of it being set on fire

I’m fine with this. It’s specific to an actual crime that happened, and not targeting a known individual or preventing something that hasn’t happened yet, “for the children” or some nonsense like that.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It wasn't specific to an individual criminal, though. Police aren't allowed to get warrants for fishing expeditions, they're supposed to find leads themselves and then get a concise warrant to evidence to confirm that. They searched people they had no right to search, and violated their constitutional rights.

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It wasn’t specific to the fire? Like, whoever googled the address is a suspect. That’s a pretty good way to solve a crime.

[–] rgb3x3@beehaw.org 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Would you still feel the same way if the DMV was set on fire and you were a suspect because you'd searched for directions to the place?

Or if you had searched that home address because you were looking for homes in the area to compare with what you wanted?

It shouldn't be enough to make a Google search to assume an individual is a suspect in a crime.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

Yes exactly. This story has echos of the guy who was hounded by police (and maybe even charged and convicted?) because he took a different route while cycling and rode past a house where a crime was committed. That, too, was Google.

[–] FutileRecipe@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (18 children)

You're fine with not targeting an individual and using blanket warrants instead? Even a judge said it was unconstitutional due to it not being individualized, and the EFF says it can implicate innocents. Even Google, who tracks and collects most everything, was reluctant to hand it over.

Sure, this reinvigorated the case, but it has an "ends justify the means" feel to it, which is a slippery slope. But you're actively endorsing a less privacy friendly stance than Google, of all things. That blows my mind.

load more comments (18 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I am conflicted on how I feel about that. Obviously information dragonets are bad because they're specifically designed to produce false positives. In this case, however, they produced a definite positive that wouldn't have been achieved otherwise.

Edit:

The good-faith exception to the exclusionary rule provides that “evidence
obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment should not be suppressed in
circumstances where the evidence was obtained by officers acting in objectively
reasonable reliance on a warrant issued by a detached and neutral magistrate, even
if that warrant was later determined to be invalid.” Gutierrez, 222 P.3d at 941; see
also Leftwich, 869 P.2d at 1272 (holding that Colorado’s good-faith exception,
35
codified in section 16-3-308, C.R.S. (2023), is “substantially similar” to the Supreme
Court’s rule). The exception exists because there is little chance suppression will
deter police misconduct in cases where the police didn’t know their conduct was
illegal in the first place. Leon, 468 U.S. at 918–19. In such cases, “the social costs of
suppression would outweigh any possible deterrent effect.

But the good-faith analysis in Gutierrez is distinguishable. True, we held
there that the good-faith exception did not apply, but we had already recognized
that individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their financial records
when Gutierrez was decided. Id. at 933 (citing numerous cases and statutes
establishing that an individual’s financial records are protected under Colorado
law). So, the police were on notice that a nexus was required between a crime and
Gutierrez’s individual tax records. See id.

38
¶70 By contrast, until today, no court had established that individuals have a
constitutionally protected privacy interest in their Google search history. Cf.
Commonwealth v. Kurtz, 294 A.3d 509, 522 (Pa. Super. Ct. 2023) (holding that, under
the third-party doctrine, the defendant did not have a reasonable expectation of
privacy in his search history). In the absence of precedent explicitly establishing
that an individual’s Google search history is constitutionally protected, DPD had
no reason to know that it might have needed to demonstrate a connection between
the alleged crime and Seymour’s individual Google account.

In essence, the court is saying that this is the one and only time this will be allowed in Colorado.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA12.pdf

[–] snooggums@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The obvious potential harm in general outweighs the positive outcome in a specific case. Justifying broad surveillance because it works occasionally is the road to a police state.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

The entire exeption, and the broader exclusionary rule, is based around the self-evidently incorrect assumption that what happens in court will effect behaviour of investigators.

[–] hottari@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

Another reason to use VPN/Tor.

load more comments
view more: next ›