my best advice is: keep going. Dont stop. Your doing great. Remember if you are building muscle mass you ought to get heavier. The scale is not the best indicator for your fitness. Ive even heard this as a reason to go diet only. If "diet" for you means healthy eating, go ahead, but dont starve yourself.
this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023
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What i am trying to figure will/is being on a deficit will hinder my muscle growth… coz i feel like 2 months is a long time, i feel like i should have atleast have somewhat noticable muscle growth from what i have heard…
Someone Brand new to working out will get newbie gains, in the first year of working out a young male can expect to put on around 10lbs of muscle. So around 0.8lbs of muscle a month. But it'll be front heavy, but even at like 1.5-2lbs a month, fat is less dense then muscle so if you're losing more fat than muscle you are gonna look smaller.
Look for tone not muscle growth, muscle growth isn't fast, it's a slow process and one day you look back at year old pictures and go "damn..."
I'm not well versed in recent research in this area. But muscle growth is expensive, keep your protein intake up. Have a good dose of protein within 2hrs of exercise.
What is your gym routine? You need to be consistent, at least 3 times per week and lift to fatigue at least 3 sets of 'x' .
Edit: Most importantly this will take quite some time. So do it in a sustainable way. Don't worry about scales for weight as your weight loss and muscle gain won't give you accurate representation of your body's changes
Yeah gym is expensive lol, as for the routine i lift weight 5-6 times a week and do cardio 3-4 times a week
Are you a beginner? Lifting 5-6 times a week is a bit much, even for an experienced lifter, but especially for someone new.
What kind of lifting are you doing? Olympic lifts? X sets of y? Keeping track of your weights and increasing when you can?
Yeah i am, actually i (was) on a vacation and started hitting the gym just because i was bored and also wanted to get in better shape, so thats why i went 5-6 times a week, i dont do olympic lifts, i only use 4-5 machines (Chest, Shoulder, leg press, pulldown etc)for each major muscle grp I perform 3 sets of 10-12 reps and when i feel like they are getting too easy, i increase the weight…
To grow muscle you need fuel. There is a reason Brian Shaw eats 10+k calories a day.
If you want to lose fat you need to burn calories faster than you eat them.
That is why people looking to "get shredded" will run a bulk then cut cycle. Eat and train like a madman to build them muscle, then go into a caloric deficit (eat less than you burn) and train as hard a your body will let you.
Brian Shaw is also 6'8" and 400lbs of muscle and he didnt get there by eating 10k calories a day, he stays there by eating 10k calories.
Muscle is metobolcially active, about 20cals a day, so if (subtracting bone, organs, etc) he's 280lbs of muscle, 5,600 calories is literally just to keep is muscle from melting away.
He also exercises as a job, probably close to 2k cals a day.
You need about 1200kcal a day for metabolic function.
So he's burning ~ 8k calories a day, the 10k calories is also when he's bulking up so he's trying to put on size both fat and muscle tissure that already exists (it can take years to build 20lbs of muscle, but lose it and try and put it back on and you can do it in months).
Tldr: You do not need to eat absurd amounts of calories to out on muscle, just aim for ~200 calories a day more than your maintenance. Eating 5k calories a day when you are 5'9" and 170lbs at 20% body fat will not magically make you put on lbs and lbs of muscle a month.
My point was that you need to be in a surplus to build muscle.
I agree, you do not need to be in an 8k calorie surplus to build muscle. That is excessive, but that is why he the most successful currently active strongman and we are not.
Recomp, it's slowwww. Here's my journey so far doing a bit of what you described. Hope it helps with expectations.
I had a lot of weight to lose and not sure what my goal was besides shedding fat at the start. Midway through my journey I realized muscles were cool and focused on that.
I (5'10"M) went from 330 to 260 with a standard caloric deficit with some cardio mixed in from March - October 2022. Weight came off fast but my body needed a break.
Started weightlifting at maintenance/ slight caloric surplus at the very start of November 2022 up until March/April 2023. I gained about 10lbs during this timeframe. Wasn't intending to gain weight, but I was sooooo hungry from the weightlifting.
With the amount of fat I had it was hard to notice gains and definition until about 3-4 months in. 6 months in it was much more apparent to myself and other people. I was doing a 6 day PPL routine the entire time. Shoulders, back, and arms became my main visual indicators that everything was working. Strength gains were increasing as well so I knew I was on track.
From April until now I started a cut and dropped from 270 down to 250 and the muscle definition is way more noticeable now. My strength gains have slowed down dramatically on this cut though. I'm at about a 600-800 calorie deficit. Recovery time is definitely longer as well.
The 6 months 'recomp' pause was great. It let my body catch up and I think it even gave my skin a chance to catch up. Muscle filling in the gaps definitely helped too.
2 months is definitely short. Keep grinding and it will snowball into bigger changes.
Eating at a deficit makes trying to gain muscle a slow process. If you would like to gain muscle faster, your strategy of going surplus seems right. Keep at it, you are doing the right things and it will show eventually! Additionally, here’s some broad suggestions in case some resonate with you and others.
Diets and regimens work differently for different people. So I would preface everything by - what works for me or someone else may not work for you and you’ll need to do some trial and error to figure out what would work the best for you.
I read somewhere that you count calories to manage weight and exercise to get into/maintain shape. So that’s my TL;DR.
- Weight - Weight will always be determined by calories in, calories out. Your metabolism, macronutrients intake, sleep behavior, activity level, genetics, mental health will all impact how much calories your body consumes in a typical day. When starting off, try to count the calories you are consuming as accurately as possible. Monitor your weight over a few weeks and find your average caloric consumption based on that. Then use this to determine how much calories you should be consuming to get to the desired weight within the desired period.
- Carbs - Avoid too many carbs and definitely avoid high glycemic index carbs as much as possible. This is anything with simple carbs that the body breaks up easily. They are great to give you quick boosts of energy but they also fluctuate your glucose levels, and make you feel hungry sooner. This makes it hard to eat within a caloric limit and gives the unpleasant sugar highs and lows. That said, carbs are a macronutrient so don’t eliminate them completely. In fact they may help when trying to push your body harder in your workouts.
- Proteins - Protein is essential for your body to create and grow muscle tissue. It’s hard to get enough protein for muscle growth just from food sources without messing up total calories so supplements help. Get 25% or more of your daily calories from high quality protein when trying to gain muscle.
- Diets - Some of the recommended diets are intermittent fasting (IF), keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, etc. These diets have impacts beyond just your body weight but I would not get into them for this post. For your question, the most important aspect of all these diets is that they make it easier to manage your caloric intake. All these diets would also generally help you get the right macronutrients. I would suggest reading about them, finding what resonates with you and giving some a shot.
- Muscle - Compound exercise weight training with exercises that work multiple muscles, like squats, deadlifts, presses, and chin ups are good for beginners. Form is more important than the weight. Some people can get into very good shape with calisthenics only. Try to avoid machines in the beginning. Weight machines work fewer muscles at a time and don’t contribute to improving balance. As you learn more about your body and the exercises, you can add and modify them to what suits you the best.
- Sleep - Get good sleep and maintain your mental health. Sleep is essential for your body to work its magic of building muscle. And, if any of the above is making you miserable, it will be hard to stick with it for the long term. What even would be the point of looking great if you don’t feel good!
Personally, I’ve never been able to gain muscle and reduce weight at the same time. This means my total muscle mass is not increasing however my body is getting more in shape (which is what I’m trying to do). For some people they are able to gain muscle mass despite losing weight especially if they are just starting out with weight training. Don’t be discouraged if you fall in the first group. Once you understand your caloric intake and body, you can modify your diet and exercise to make it work for your goals.
Idk why but my coach directly put me into the machines and did not make do any of those compound exercises, i think that it maybe because i was (and still am) in a very bad shape, i am not obese but i have extremely low muscle mass (consequently high fat mass), heck i can’t even do a simple push-up even after two months, still doing knee pushups
I don't think it's a big deal to start off using machines. If you've never really worked out much it can be a bit less intimidating and if that gets you to workout out more go for it. Yet if you have a coach I would start asking them about doing the compound exercises and teaching you good form. Even if you are in really bad shape practicing doing the movement unloaded will help you understand how your body moves and what good form feels like.
I also think one of the biggest hurdles people new to exercise (especially strength training) is patients. It takes wayyyy longer than you expect to build up enough muscle to do some of the bodyweight exercises (pushups, pull ups, etc.) I don't say this to discourage you but to re-set your expectations. You will see improvements but it does take time to get there Please Don't give up. it's really worth it
It took me eight months of training before I could do a simple pushup. I’m so glad I never gave up.
First off, hats off to you for putting out the effort to start taking care of your health. I've been someone who has lost 20kgs at one time and have gained 25kgs in another time.
The two most important things that a person getting into fitness should take care of are: 1.) Discipline: Do NOT miss a day of exercise. If you're going to a gym, make sure you show up every day. If you go running in the park make sure you get up and run no matter what. Do it ONE day at a time. Don't do it to reach a long term goal of gaining muscle and losing fat, do it for the daily goal. It is important that you be disciplined, even if you are giving 10%, just do it! 2.) Mindful Eating: You don't have to do fancy diets, or gulp down drywall just to get into the shape of a greek God. Just be mindful when eating. Get into the habit of mindful eating.
These are the two most important factors. Now, once you've nailed these two down, all you have to do is tweak your daily habits to add specific exercises and eat calculated amounts of food to reach whatever goal you want to achieve!
Good luck pal!
Thanks a lot!
Slowly? Eat right and lift progressively heavier weights. You'll eventually end up where you want to be. Consistently working out is the most important thing.
For what it's worth, I'm old af so at this point my routine is basically an oly lift main with accessories 3-4 times weekly.
Seems to be working (at least until I fucking hurt myself).
Yeah! And also take it easy, dont hurt yourself
What lifts are you doing?
If you focus on compound lifts (bench, chin-ups, squats), and push them to your limit, you will burn an insane amount of calories.
- Hey - a lot of lifters would love to be in your position (you already have additional mass to convert to muscle!)
As for losing weight - my buddy lost 35lbs in 6 months, just by eating paleo (all natural foods).
On top of that, if you go for a full-sprint every day (or a mile jog), it will kick your metabolism into another gear.
Only using machines rn, <Hey - a lot of lifters would love to be in your position (you already have additional mass to convert to muscle!)> Idk about that, how can you convert fat to muscle?
Machines are good too - you can really push yourself to maximum exertion (to where you are jello on the last rep of each set).
This 5-minute video shows the power of lifting intensity.
A lot of people who lift are just "going through the motions", instead of "pushing your body to the new limit".
I lost 125 lbs and lost some muscle, but also re-earned some. I don't have the muscle I used to have at 300 lbs, though.
One of the amazing things bodies can do is grow and shrink at the same time, but it can't do both superbly. In fact, to gain muscle superbly, you have to gain some fat. To lose weight superbly, you're likely going to also lose some muscle).
i want to lose weight and also build some muscle, ive have been hitting the gym and cutting my calories by 500-900cal for the past two months, while i am seeing some muscle growth, its not very substantial or something people around me will notice, ive also lost about 2kgs which is not much
Not too shabby. Sounds quite right.
Here's the thing -- you're not only preserving the muscle you had from being the heavier body you were, you built on that. Most people on a cut who aren't lifting will lose some muscle mass too given not only the smaller need for muscle in a smaller body, but also some catabolization (the body eating muscle cells for energy). You aren't just not losing muscle, you're gaining some.
Don't worry that 2 months work isn't something to see yet -- your habits are your destiny -- it'll happen.
A loss of -2 kgs is over 15000 kcal not eaten, but you'd expect more out of -700 average deficit for 60 days (-42000). Is your food tracking in real time? Complete including condiments, cooking oils, salad dressings, and other (often) forgettables? Are you checking portions with a digital kitchen food scale or measuring cups or some other reliable means? These self-reporting problems are the most common ones.
That assumes he was eating at a maintenance level before. If he was significantly overweight, then it's likely that he was previously running a surplus. So a cut of 700 calories may only yield a net deficit of something less than that.
Also, the OP may also have a significant gain in muscle mass that's not very apparent in the mirror over 60 days. So it's very hard to figure out if something isn't adding up just from the info we've been given.
The only real way to know is to combine weight with a body fat measurement. That way you can calculate out lean mass and body fat mass and see progress.
I use my fitness pal (doesn’t it include cooking oil and condiments) to track calories and cross check sometimes with google as well, however i will say that most of the time i mantained a deficit of about 500, but there were days were i did 900, i shoud’ve worded it a little better, but about the weight, i asked my coach as well and he said not to worry as muscle in denser than fat, so it may look like i have lost more weight than i thought as i wouldve gained some in muscle mass
I will keep a closer eye on the tracking though…
All around great advice here already, I just want to echo the importance of continuous improvement as the result of regimen. Keep at it, results come with time.
I really like the 100 hour rule: it takes 100 hours of actually working out in order to see meaningful visible changes. This means if you workout 2 hours a week, it will take a year of effort.
It just takes time. 2 months is nothing. Take pictures of yourself now and keep doing it.
Keto + weights worked for me. You don't have the same ability to restore your glycogen stores as with a high carb diet, so you have to do several short bursts of exercise spread throughout the day, but a high protein diet is pretty good otherwise. Since you need to do multiple workouts, it's really only suitable for a home gym though (unless you stick to bodyweight exercises). Personally I find six 5 minute sessions a day gives you a pretty solid workout. Plus keto food can be really delicious. I lost about 15kg and put on a fair bit of muscle at the same time. The research I've seen doesn't show any advantage to doing a single workout vs. several shorter workouts if you can work that into your lifestyle.
It’s pretty hard for me to get the gym equipment in my home..
I got a gluten intolerance and then a job in a warehouse. I ended up doing a ton of heavy lifting and eating high protein because i couldn't eat anything else.
What I did was make sure I had creatine daily, high protein at least 1g per lb. Lift heavy twice a week one day for upper body, one day for lower body. Go for reps other 2 gym days.
Everyone's body is different but that worked for me.
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