I think they did a better job than TOS did writing stories for the other crew members, but the last few TNG movies are basically the Picard and Data show
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
51 points (100.0% liked)
Star Trek
10589 readers
47 users here now
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
3 Be truthful
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
4 Be nice
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
5 Spoilers
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episodes, as well as previews for upcoming episodes. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/quarks.
7 Meta
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 11-07 | LD 5x04 | "A Farewell to Farms" |
| 11-14 | LD 5x05 | "Star Base 80?" |
| 11-21 | LD 5x06 | "Of Gods and Angels" |
| 11-28 | LD 5x07 | "Fully Dilated" |
| 12-05 | LD 5x08 | "Upper Decks" |
In Production
Strange New Worlds (2025)
Section 31 (2025-01-24)
Starfleet Academy (TBA)
In Development
Untitled comedy series
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
There is a sharp divide between TNG and the TNG movies, in terms of quality and writing style.
In TNG, Data is most heavily paired with Geordi. However, he is paired with other characters or has his own isolated adventures. Pretty much all the main cast characters get the same. The movies are more, let’s politely say “streamlined” in how they treat characterization.
I've always felt like the TOS movies were better than the TOS show, but the TNG show was better than the TNG movies.
My reasoning is: the TOS campiness was great, but the 2-3-4 trilogy especially highlighted the strengths of the cast, and the slightly more militaristic Starfleet actually worked (and don't even get me started on them red uniforms... Mm). STVI is likely the best political story in the entirety of the TOS canon.
Meanwhile, TNG the show was tackling themes that TOS would have never touched. I suspect it actually may have a lot to do with the fact that the last few TOS movies and the TNG show were made at roughly the same time.
The TOS movies seemed like labors of love. The TNG movies seemed like cashing in on a brand name.
I don’t have specific examples on hand, but I do believe Patrick Stewart had a lot more clout and creative control in the TNG movies. Stewart seems like he’s got an ego, and doesn’t care about the integrity or legacy of Picard as a character beyond being a vehicle for Stewart to either do the acting he wants, regardless of its appropriateness to TNG, or as an excuse to drive dune buggies around for fun.
Pretty much. Stewart's career really took off post-tng and he would only come back for the films if they gave him more creative input. Same thing with the Picard Show. Look Patrick Stewart is an outstanding actor who has now demonstrated multiple times that he should never EVER be let near a writers room. Its theorized that why we didn't have a veteran Trek writer for Nemesis, nobody could stand working with Patrick Stewart any more.
There was also a lot of studio interference. That's why we have Kirk in Generations, because the studio suits didn't think a Star Trek movie could succeed without Captain Kirk. Suits also wanted each movie to have a Khan-esque villain, which they pretty much failed at every time.
Yeah, and the problem with the Picard and Data show is that those characters don't really have a relationship, at least not an emotional connection like Kirk/Spock/McCoy. They basically just had a professional relationship, which was fine for the series where there's a problem to be solved every episode, and it's not necessary to have fleshed-out character arcs. But a movie narrative needs to make the audience care about the main characters and their interactions with each other, all within a very short period of time. Picard/Data simply could not provide that emotional core.
No TNG was definitely a full ensemble cast. I think people say that because Data is an obvious analog of Spock. But if this analogy is to hold, who is McCoy? Riker? Crusher? It doesn't make sense.
I think they just held onto the TOS traditions of strong captain as the lead with a Spock-like character and diverse remaining cast. But TNG had more space to work with the non-lead actors than TOS did partially because it had TOS's world building as a foundation.
There's plenty of Troi, Beverley and Geordie episodes in the mix, and worf episodes are typically excellent if few.
But I think the big three you mention dominate the story lines as they're running things whenever a story isn't about a particular crew member
I feel like every Worf episode was them trying to remind you that he's supposed to be a bad ass, even though he gets his ass handed to him every other episode to show how much more bad ass the enemy of the week is.
Worf may be a badass, but there are many that are just badder than he is. But as the Jem Hadar guy said "I cannot defeat this man, I can only kill him".
Are Worf episodes even few? Seems like he's just under Picard and Data in terms of focus. He gets to be the focus of a whole season ending two-parter and gets multiple arcs throughout the series. More then Troi, Geordie, and Crusher for sure.
There's heart of Glory, sins of the father, redemption & birthright for worf and his heritage I think. And parallels which is just about worf.
It's not many unless I'm missing some.
My friend you're missing many. After quick look-through I'm coming up with: The Bonding, Reunion, Ethics, A Fistfull of Data's, Rightful Heir, Homeward, and Firstborn. Worf also gets a bunch of B-plot focus like In Family. He's the opposite of Riker where he gets hardly any focus at the beginning of the series, but more and more as the series progresses.
The funny thing about the Troi episodes are that the best ones with her in them are when she isn't being a counselor.
Keep in mind TNG ran for a more then twice as long as the original series. Gives it a lot more time to flesh out its cast of characters. Originally Picard, Riker, and Crusher were envisioned as the main trio, but all of early tng's production issues and Gates Mcfadden leaving for the 2nd season threw a wrench in that vision. Starting with season 3 the show becomes more of an ensemble. You start to get the formula of specific character-centric episodes that will stick with the show for the remainder of its run. Honestly it feels like near the end of its run TNG was more the Picard, Data, and Worf show. Riker gets hardly any episodes that focus on him in the last few seasons.
I think Gates McFadden left because she thought she wasn't getting enough lines or something. Funny because I think she got even less later.
I agree it started out with more Riker and he didn't get much toward the end. Just the "what the hell are we going to do now?" line
She didn't leave. She was fired. Watch recent interviews with her.
All the post-TOS shows expanded and deepened main cast, leading to episodes being able to be centered on various characters. TOS had a smaller and more focused cast. It was a rarity to even have a Spock or McCoy centered episode, and I can’t think of an episode where at least one of the main trio wasn’t the most prominent character.
I think it’s just a difference in writing styles of the different times between the 1960s and the 1980s. Even look at something like STIV: The Voyage Home. Same characters as TOS, but written in the 1980s and a lot more comfortable giving various non-trio characters their own individual adventures.
Another important factor is TNG's reliance (sometimes over-reliance) on A/B plots. The B plots were often an outlet for the ensemble characters to come out and play.
I think you can even argue that in each case there are two main characters plus a third wheel (Riker/McCoy).
But McCoy never faded from view, whereas Riker almost became a background character during the second half of TNG. They should have written Riker out of the series after Best of Both Worlds; after the character stuck around, the writers seemed unable to figure out what to do with him.