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Hi guys basically as the title says. I have a pixel phone running GrapheneOS and I really don't want to install Play Services. Is there an alternative for me? I need reliable notifications for Telegram and signal. Edit: Thank you all amazing people for helping I learned alot and found best setup for me

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[–] toastal@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

FYI for the other commenters, UnifiedPush can work thru the Prosody mod_unified_push or any server with a up where Conversations (& its forks like Cheogram, Monocles, Blabber) can be a distributor. This has the added bonus of coming with an awesome decentralized XMPP chat server getting to reuse a single connection & single app to server instead of separate ones. Conversations is the most efficient chat client on Android in terms of resources (battery, network, RAM) so might as well keep it lightweight—which you are probably trying to get push notifications from the likes of Signal or Element, but what is the point when you have an efficient XMPP server for your chat needs?

However, I think UnifiedPush might be a bit flawed—as if the startup that created ntfy is pushing others to try to adopt their standard instead of getting folks on board with the older & capable MQTT (which also can be ran thru mod_mqtt on your XMPP server). I am not yet sure if this is a tinfoil take or not.

[–] phase@lemmy.8th.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Please update what you chose then, to help the next person.

[–] aprehendedmerlin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I went with ntfy.sh and installed molly and mercurygram.

[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Good choices. I take this a step further and bridge IRC, Signal, Gvoice, and WhatsApp from a plugged in device or container to Matrix. Then use ntfy for Matrix notifications. This gives me notifications for all of them in Matrix/Element and thus through ntfy.

Example: Instead of Molly I use mautrix-signal bridge as the device and it feeds messages into Matrix.

There's also a Telegram bridge: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/telegram/

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 32 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Most libre applications implement their own websockets for this. EDIT: some propriety spyware like WhatsApp use those too, can confirm myself, as I unfortunately have to use it on my GrapheneOS owner profile (which ofc doesn't have the sandboxed GPlay services installed; I could technically use it on my profile for personal proprietary apps, but it would be a major pita) ENDEDIT
(unfortunately Proton uses only Google FCM in most of their apps and doesn't publish them on F-Droid or Accrescent)

However, those can take a strain on your battery since every websocket maintains it's own connection.
This is where UnifiedPush in combination with either nfty or Sunup comes in
(EDIT: I use ntfy myself, also Sunup seems to be quite new, so it might come with some quirks; EDITEND there is also a plugin for your own Nextcloud)

Since Unifiedpush maintains only one connection for every app using it, this takes quite a bit less charge to upkeep
(it's explained quite well on their website, which is hyperlinked)

If you are looking for Unifiedpush support on Signal: Molly is a hardened fork of the client and does support it through Mollysocket

EDIT: If you use Telegram there is Mercurygram. As for Matrix clients, I use Element and Schildichat. All these support UnifiedPush

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Spot on response!
Just a note: in my experience Mercurygram with ntfy is terribly unreliable, with notifications coming in days later, so I personally ended up enabling its background service anyways, it doesn't look like it's taking up much battery at least

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Thx for the kind words!

I left the background service on for all the messengers, it's not like the Unifiedpush ones have anything major to use anyway. This increased the reliability and peace of mind + they never show up as major battery users for me either

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You mean unrestricted battery usage? If so, I don't exactly understand how it differs from keeping the unifiedpush integration off and relying on the app, does it make it so that it's only "ready" to be triggered by ntfy when it would otherwise poll the server on its own very frequently (so you end up actually saving some battery)?

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

does it make it so that it's only "ready" to be triggered by ntfy when it would otherwise poll the server on its own very frequently (so you end up actually saving some battery)?

That's how I understand it, yes. You change the behaviour of the app by configuring it to use UnifiedPush, so there is less background usage to restrict

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 3 points 2 days ago

I see, that makes sense

[–] aprehendedmerlin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Thanks for your awesome advice.

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Happy to help :)

(especially when it comes awesome libre software :p)

[–] dracs@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm using Molly with UnifiedPush for notifications and it works quite well.

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

So you have set it up over Mollysocket? Do you use your own or a remote instance?

I just haven't got around to setting it up myself yet... (+ I don't have my own server yet, so I can't self host :/)

[–] dracs@programming.dev 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, in self hosting MollySocket and my own Ntfy server. I'm in the process of moving it all to my NAS so I don't have to leave my computer on all the time.

I really wish Signal would support it natively.

[–] qweertz@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

it's rly cool that you're self hosting this stuff! though I can imagine running your PC 24/7 just for that is quite annoying

also yeah, upstream support for UnifiedPush in the clients for both Signal and Telegram would be great...

But I can imagine that it's not rly a priority for them.
(I'm not actually skilled enough (yet) to help implement that though either)

[–] Matombo@feddit.org 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

nfty for applications that support it. your only other choice is microg

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

your only other choice is microg

Doesn't work on GrapheneOS, since it requires root access for signature spoofing. And it's not any better than Sandboxed play services.

[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Are you talking about ntfy? And if so, could you give more context? I run a self-hosted ntfy and am thinking of switching to GOS.

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago

Sorry, forgot to include a blockquote. I was talking about microG. Ntfy is a regular user-installable app, you just need to grant it permission to run in the background, i.e. disable battery optimization.

[–] spookedintownsville@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I believe they're referring to microg. Never used ntfy so I'm not too sure.

[–] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You're damn right

[–] illegalflyer@lemm.ee 24 points 2 days ago

Only thing I have a problem with right now is proton mail. Hopefully soon they will be implementing notifications that don't rely on google play (they said they are working on it)

[–] MrPoopbutt@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Why do you not want play services on grapheneos? Doesn't the sandboxing remove any issues with it?

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't know about Telegram, but I know, at least with Signal, it should work with web sockets, and allow you to get notifications that way. At least that's how I get my notifications on Molly, which is a fork of signal. While not many applications support it, you might also look into UnifiedPush and ntfy which is a UP app from F-Droid.

[–] oldfart@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Telegram just sits in the background and works, I don't understand OP's problem. The only downside compared to gplay version is that there's a persistent notification.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

Yeah, Molly does the same thing and doesn't cause me any problems.

[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago

I use ntfy from fdroid

[–] WreckingBANG@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It depends for what Apps you need them. Often Apps like Signal or Element support getting Notifications via a persistent Server connection or asking every so often for Notifications. Even tho i could not find any source, i found that this works with Whatsapp(sadly have to use it) too.

[–] aprehendedmerlin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 days ago (5 children)

So it's either a persistent notification or allowing the app to constantly running in the background. Does it have a significant battery impact?

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago

On my device, I let the app just constantly hang out in the background with a persistent notification that I have turned off, but it does not have a significant battery impact for me at all. So your mileage may vary. Some people say that it has significant impact, and some people like me, it doesn't impact hardly at all.

[–] FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi 4 points 2 days ago

Doesn't have a significant impact. Using Telegram (though third party OSS client called Forkgram) and Signal without Play services on pixel as well.

[–] merde@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

yes, it has a "significant" impact on battery. i don't know why the other comment claims otherwise.

it's worth it for me, so i accept that "impact".

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago

For some people it doesn't, and for others it does. So your mileage may vary. For example, with me, I have seen no significant battery impact, and I've been running it this way for several years.

[–] WreckingBANG@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

Signal uses 2% a day and Element 1%. I do not really think this is significant.

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[–] Cris16228@lemmy.today 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It depends. Some apps have their push notifications system but may consume more battery.

You should list what apps

[–] aprehendedmerlin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago (5 children)

You're right I need reliable notifications for Telegram and signal

[–] VHS@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

There's a fork of Telegram on F-droid called "Telegram FOSS" that runs a background service for notifications. I've used it and the effect on battery drain is pretty minor, like maybe 2% per charge. Not sure if something similar exists for Signal.

I use MicroG on my phone, it's a basic FOSS replacement for GMS and makes push notifications work for all apps. It gets push notifs from Google's servers but you don't need an account. It doesn't use Google at all for location, which is nice as that's a highly invasive aspect of Play Services. Not all ROMs are compatible with it, I use it on Lineage

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[–] NewOldGuard@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I personally like using UnifiedPush wherever possible. You install an app to serve notifications (I use ntfy.sh), then install applications which support the standard. Usually they have a setting to toggle unified push which should register them with ntfy, then you’re golden. Obviously this is limited to a small group of apps but support is growing, and where it’s present it’s fantastic.

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