The big one is being beholden to the insurance companies and denying us universal health care. Employer tied healthcare is a huge stumbling block for worker mobility.
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
35 points (72.2% liked)
No Stupid Questions
35868 readers
2199 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
This isn't a recent phenomena. Bernie's statement calls out the Democrats behavior over the last 30 years which puts you right in the middle of the first term of Clinton. However, Clinton was the first Democratic executive that had a chance to really enact a strategic change in the Democratic party that was first formulated after the chaos and losses of 1968.
Before 1968, the democrat party was tightly knit with union interest and the selection of a presidential candidate was done behind closed doors by party bosses. This is how it was done in 1968 resulting in Hubert Humphrey. Hubert Humphrey was an establishment candidate and VP to a very unpopular president who decided not to run for a second term. Robert Kennedy was very popular, but assisted before the convention. There were other candidates, but Hubert Humphrey enters the race after the 12 primaries had closed, but before the convention. There were a lot of reasons for chaos at the Democratic Convention in 1968, but this was one. Humphrey was chosen in an undemocratic fashion by party bosses despite lacking wide support by the base. I'm not saying history repeated itself, but it sure rhymes.
So Humphrey loses. The next four years results in reflection buly the party, an internal document called the McGovern-Frasier report is created, the selection process becomes more democratic causing candidates to make a wider tent for an intra-party coalition resulting in the nomination of McGovern eho whose major focus was to get the US out of Vietnam. Major unions decide not to back him and, well, he gets his ass kicked.
More reflection and the Trilateral Commission conclude that "excessive democracy" had resulted in the erosion of economic and political stability. So unions are still important in America at this point, but there's a growing shift from an industrial society to a professional services society starting to happen. The members of the Trilateral Commission see this and start to court this group. Meanwhile, colleges increase enrollment accepting non-traditional students to matriculate.
Jimmy Carter, a member of the Trilateral Commission, is elected and enacts several neo liberal policies such as deregulating the airlines and creating natural gas markets. He fails a bid for a second term, but the tenor of what is yet to come has been sounded. Atari-democrats, young ambitious tech savvy, step to the fore and represented by someone like Gary Hart. He fails to get the nomination mainly because he had an affair and Mondale gets the nod. Mondale was an old school dem who supported labor and Carter's VP. He loses worse than McGovern in 1972.
In 1988, Dukakis runs trying to bridge the old Dems and the new Dems. Like riding two horses, he fails. That's four out five election losses. 1992, a young whipper snapper from Arkansas steps to the plate and wins with an outstanding 43% of the popular vote. Wait! How could be, you ask? You see, Nader isn't the only spoiler candidate. One free wheeling Texas business man named Ross Perot got about 20% of the popular vote. I still remember is slide presentation on network television.
But I digress. This administration, knowing they just barely won, does what anyone who hasn't won in a whole and makes radical changes. Good bye old guard and welcome the new way of ruling. One notable survivor of the purge was Joe Biden. They deregulate more industries and open more trade with NAFTA, CAFTA, China and help rebuilding a newly democratized Russia. Not all of this happened in the first term, but these were all important events. W campaigned on an isolationist strategy in response to much of this. From 1993 to 2013, we lived in the Clinton era. Biden isn't really aligned with it deeply. He's been the middle ground man and probably is more closely aligned to Mondale or Dukakis.
The stock market takes off during the first tech boom, but the vast majority of the spoils go to the professional class and the rich. The working class is doing better because everyone is doing better, but not keeping up. Meanwhile factories are closing and we aren't investing in infrastrcuture. Also, if you want your kids to have a future, send them to college. Can't afford it? No worries, here are some loans. It's for your children. Good luck!
It's during this time that you see them not resisting neocon war mongering. War mongering guts the working class. You see Obama not helping out the working class after the 2008 financial crisis. But who cares? The stock market is soaring! What do mean you don't have any extra cash to invest. Good luck!
2016 had primaries, but everyone knew they'd regret it if they got in the way of Hillary. It was her turn and we deserved a woman president. Biden regrets sitting this out. I don't know if he would have had a chance, but being VP, it would have been a fight of two different visions. Throw in Bernie and there's a real decision to be made.
Well damn... This was far too long. Hopefully it was an interesting read. Yeah, there's five examples in here, but the damage is far more subtle over the course of several decades. The working class, when unionized, were powerful. And politics were fucked up. Then we gutted them and an industrial base and shit's fucked up in a new way. No easy answers. Just grinding.
I appreciate the introspective read. Yeah I can see the conflicting interest now within the party in the modern era (post civil rights). But apart of me just feels like you gotta win elections now by being in the right place and right time. I honestly don’t think the electorate is smart enough to vote on policies anymore. It’s more or less slogans and sayings now.
Anyone who actually does their homework knows Democrats are far and away the party of the working class compared to Republicans. A quick look at their voting history proves that.
If you hear otherwise it's either coming from liars, fools who have been deceived, or by liberals who whine about Democrats not doing enough and then abstain from voting or vote 3rd party to protest and help to elect an anti-worker president and party, which is what just happened.
Anyone who actually does their homework knows Democrats are far and away the party of the working class compared to Republicans.
"Compared to Republicans" is a pretty low bar, just sayin' :).
NAFTA and Wall Street bailouts come to mind.
In regards to Bernie, his premise is that wealth inequality is the core problem, which means tax the rich until they can't have an outsized influence on our politics.
Taxing the upper class was part of their platform though.....so....still unsure as to where there against the "working class".
Their platform aint worth shit since they never actually deliver anything.
Its like my Christmas wish list when I was a poor child... Mostly just a cope
Trump’s tax plan was in effect until the end of 2024. Biden’s plan wasn’t able to go into effect until next year.
Biden tax plan?
When did congress vote on that?
Tax and spend is job of the congress... not the president. So unless congress did a thing, then this is a nothing burger.
This is constitution 101 btw
We can keep telling ourselves Mark Cuban's "opportunity economy" was good enough but objectively it was a flop with working class voters. Either it was a messaging failure or it wasn't populist enough, Bernie is saying it is the latter. If it was a messaging failure, then we're likely to conclude it is because our media landscape is toxic. Bernie would agree and say that is why we need a populist message to cut through.
I thank we can develop state that our media landscape is beyond toxic. It's apparent that much of our population is getting fed information through tik Tok, Facebook, and YouTube. Learning how to game the system like the alt-right does would be incredibly worthwhile.
ive been waiting 30 years for them to end the 'war on drugs'. or enact 'universal health care'.
notice they let the post office get brutalized with irrational fiscal policies and have done nothing to stop it. hell, biden still hasnt removed the guy that was put in place to fuck it all up.
college costs an arm and a leg because the let student be victimized by student loans. they arent trying to stop that loan process. just clear out some old debts. half-assed at that.
theyve done almost nothing to simplify the tax paying process despite every other modern taxing country having it be automatic.
so many little bits they just dont give 2 shits about because money. because corporate interests.
I moved to a bluer state and …
ive been waiting 30 years for them to end the ‘war on drugs’. or enact ‘universal health care’.
We’re we’re one of the first to decriminalize pot, and created sort of universal healthcare that served as a model for aca.
college costs an arm and a leg
Free community college, means tested free public universities
biden still hasnt removed the guy that was put in place to fuck it all up.
And this right here is a large part of why Trump was just re-elected. People whining about how Biden and Democrats haven't done enough, so they don't vote or vote 3rd party, when in reality, they have no clue what they're talking about.
Biden doesn't have the authority to fire DeJoy on his own.
People saying things they know nothing about, then other people reading it and thinking it's true and getting upset about it, then making irrational decisions based on fallacies.
Thanks, dude.
I think there’s a misconception about elected officials. Many people believe they work to improve the lives of American citizens, but they don’t. Most of their time is spent fundraising and catering to wealthy donors. The majority of them don’t care about you at all.
I think there’s a misconception about elected officials. Many people believe they work to improve the lives of American citizens, but they don’t.
This. They want votes. They do what they think will get them votes. And yet, often -- and in the last election -- the democrats that help the people (like by walking a union picket line, supporting LGBTQ+ and basic human rights, legalizing cannabis, reducing penalties petty crimes, etc.) don't get the votes that are part of the bargain.
They vote for and enact legislation that helps the people, and the people don't re-elect them. The incentive shifts to satisfying wealthy donors.
Example?
300 years of screwing poor people. Support for the 2008 bailout for Wall Street. Donations from tech companies. They claim to support Medicare for everyone but haven't done anything about it. Democrats tend to disregard working class and rural populations. In fact they denigrate them and think of them as uneducated hicks. Remember the basket of deplorables? Obama deported more immigrants than any other president.
Can't you check their calendars on Congress website?
It's not that they're against the working class, it's that they don't do enough to fight for the working class. How can they when they all take money from billionaires and invest in their companies?
Not having any real plans to solve the problem of shrinking wages and an ever growing wealth gap makes Democrats stay home. And only when enough Democrats stay home do Republicans win.
Yes, the Democratic party is against the working class. Yes, the Republican party is much, much, much worse. Yes, you have been out of the loop if you need examples.
-
Support for slavery before the Civil War
-
Carter’s airline deregulation
-
Clinton’s welfare “reform” and NAFTA
-
Obama’s finance sector bailout
-
Biden blocking a national rail strike
Clinton repealing glass steagall
Democrats used to be the conservative party before Nixon (my timing might be off) said "Hold my beer" and turned the Republicans into the regressive Christian theocracy it is today.
So, the civil war thing doesn't really count because it was a different party with different ideals under the same name.
You think FDR was the conservative party?
He might be as close to a communist we have ever had with the New Deal, granting the right to unionize, Social Security, and all kinds of labor protections.
He threw 100,000 innocent American citizens into concentration camps
Obama student loan reforms.
~~Isn't that when student loans became bankruptcy proof and death or payoff became the only legal ways to be rid of them?~~
Nvm those changes occured in different phases from 1976 through 2005.
That was Bush I think, maybe Clinton.
But Obama followed similar anti peasant practices.
My gripe is that his loosey policy was essentially charity for schools since now they were able to charge whatever they wanted and they did.
Millenials bags are super heavy. Many are unlikely to pay it off and will face a tax bill once the loans are forgiven once they turn 50🤡
So much life wasted for no reason but to fund boomers lifestyle
We have a two party regime where Democrats plays the good cop...
But make no mistake these regime whores are colluding to extract value from working class and pass to the owner class, while they get their cut.
Millions for billions
Ignoring Bernie for the moment, "against the working class" is usually a dogwhistle for "poor whites have racial nervousness and i want to exacerbate that for political gain.". You wont find real examples because, generally, professional democrats arent against anyone. (even nazis, apparently.)
Bernie's specific crtique was a slightly tone-deaf critique that the dems were largely silent on the economic nervousness of the working class, and instead spend political capital fighting for racial and gender equality. Since the white male working class is not oppressed by race or gender, or in a position to really oppress anyone, they often feel unrepresented.
Class is also an Identity. One that most have in common.
Regardless of race, religion, sex, or gender; nearly all of us are working class.
So policies that help the working class, will help everyone. And those subclasses that are disproportionately held back, will be disproportionately helped by universal pro-worker policies.
This is extremely reductive identity politics. The point of the 2024 election results is that Trump made gains with all racial groups. You can't just boil it all down to identity. Beyond that practical lesson, identity politics is bad for any country because it is a zero-sum game. If we don't look past identity politics to a common set of ideals, we will end up with people at each other's throats.
Democrats in the past 10 ish years have been absolutely horrendous at marketing, allowing Republicans to take up all of the media talking space, traditional or otherwise. TV, news, podcasts, social media influencers, YouTube, etc. are all generally Republican leaning.
Republicans control the talking points and co-opt anything that the Democrats say. Meanwhile, Democrats are either unable or unwilling to do the same.
Republicans' control of the media allows them to get away with way more things than the Democrats. It allows them to essentially claim that they're for the working class while simultaneously working against working class interests, especially when heard by people who don't generally follow political news. Meanwhile, Democrats get called out for relatively smaller issues, and that makes them seem elitist and uncaring of working class issues.
One major facet of the Democrats being unable to control their marketing is their unwillingness to use populist rhetoric, even though by policy stances they should be (comparatively) more closely associated with populism than the Republicans. I've heard several takes on why Harris lost the election and the one that I most agree with is that she failed to use populist rhetoric and was unable to differentiate herself from Biden. People wanted change, and Harris offered the status quo.
Remember that the vast majority of Americans don't pay attention to politics, and so voter impressions are decided by tone and messaging rather than specific policies
I think it’s a lot easier to spread right wing narratives than left wing. The country itself is inherently right wing.
It may be easier. But that's not why.
If you avoid politicized language, a large majority of the US is quite left leaning, and economically progressive.
One of the Republicans favorite things to hate is the ACA (Obama Care). But if you ask them about the individual policies in the ACA, they approve of each of them by at least 2/3rds. And nearly all agree that the government should prevent people from being forced into bankruptcy by medical expenses.
Agreed, but I feel like Dems and the media have been saying that for YEARS now. And people just don’t care. It’s easier to get behind a loud brash orange man screaming about migrants taking your jobs than driving deep into healthcare. It’s unfortunate,
The Dems just don't know how to speak to people like Republicans do. They could do it. But they don't.
Rather than speaking to peoples pain and anger, they try to lecture and teach. You need to talk to people where they are not where you want them to be.
Bernie does it. That's why so many Trump supporters like him, when they don't like the rest of the Dems.
I think it’s more ideological than that. I don’t think Bernie speaks well to liberals as he does conservatives.