this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024

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306

Mainland China not the motherland, says Taiwan’s president, because our republic is older (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Lai Ching-te argues the reverse may be true because the Republic of China – the mantle that nationalists carried with them to Taiwan – predates the communist People’s Republic

It is “impossible” for the People’s Republic of China to become Taiwan’s motherland because Taiwan has older political roots, the island’s president has said.

Lai Ching-te, who took office in May, is condemned by Beijing as a separatist. He rejects Beijing’s sovereignty claims, saying the island is a country called the Republic of China that traces its origins back to the 1911 revolution overthrowing the last imperial dynasty.

The Chinese nationalist government fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war with Mao Zedong’s communists. Mao set up the People’s Republic of China, which continues to claim self-governed Taiwan as its territory.

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[–] HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world 62 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Mainland China

*West Taiwan

[–] ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago

Tai-two.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

*West Taiwan, Tibet, and Hong Kong

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I kind of get what he's saying, but I'd also think these people would take issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples

[–] Furball@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I haven’t closely followed Taiwanese politics but I’m pretty sure the DPP (his party) is largely supported by the indigenous people

[+] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's more the "motherland" claim. Most indigenous Americans support the U.S. government. They'll even sometimes proudly fight for America in the U.S. military. That doesn't mean they'd appreciate it if Trump or Biden said that the U.S. was the motherland of white people.

[–] Furball@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The thing is, he’s directly saying that China isn’t their motherland because their government was born first. He’s saying that although their government used to control China, its home is Taiwan now. The DPP is against the idea of reclaiming the mainland or claiming too much heritage or symbolism from the mainland as they are the pro-independence party in Taiwan

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Like I said, I kind of get what he's saying. I just don't know that it was put well. Maybe it works better in Chinese and it's just a translation thing.

[–] Furball@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 months ago

It’s sometimes hard to translate things like this into English well so that would make sense

[–] MicroWave@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Not entirely sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that Taiwanese Indigenous people might have a problem that the Republic of China (Taiwan) is older than the PRC?

[–] abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Basically these indigenous folks were on Taiwan long before a Chinese person set foot on the islands, let alone declared a republic. Edit: It belonged to them first, before it belonged to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%931949

[–] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz -1 points 2 months ago

Yeah it's disgraceful that people from the mainland forced out of their homes by war and prejudice have in turn set up a colonial state that oppresses, marginalised and usurped the national status of the people Indigenous to the area. If only they weren't treated as American allies just so they act as a counterbalance to the regional power.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago

I'm in Taiwan and I'm just a single voice. Lai isn't wrong. Our republic is longer, but early Taiwan was pretty shitty. They continued that shittiness the nationalist was doing back in the mainland up until the 90s when we had our first Democratic elections.

Today's Taiwan was nothing like the nationalist that proceeds it. We are actively taking down our old monuments of our forefathers because it was truly a bad time in our history.

Today's Taiwan is freaking amazing. An active government that cares about the people. Policing is done by people in the community. A school system that cares about each student and their well being. A high tax on big businesses and a low entry barrier for small businesses.

I had a school counselor come to my door because I was not picking up random phone calls. She brought cookies and school stationery and wanted to make sure my son was ready for grade school.

I invite anyone to come visit and experience Taiwan on their own.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's a Civil war that never ended.

[+] x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well he did kill a lot of landlords...

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 months ago

He also killed a lot of Japanese collaborators

[–] BMTea@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

I think you're mixing up Mao with Pol Pot.

[+] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -13 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Notice the inflection point where Mao comes in.

[–] Maxy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 2 months ago

Source: Gapminder, cited as source by the above graph as well

Funny how much the graph changes when you have more than 1 data point per decade every decade. Almost makes me wonder whether the creator of the above graph was trying to paint a certain picture instead of presenting raw data in a way that makes it easier to grasp, without bias.

Notice the inflection point where Mao implements the "great leap forward". Also notice other countries' similar rates of increasing life expectancy in the graph below, just without the same ravine around 1960.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with (what I think to be) your implicit claim that Mao somehow single-handedly raised China's life expectancy through the power of communism or whatever. Please do correct me if this wasn't your implicit claim, and if you we're either 1) yourself mislead by the graph you shared, or 2) you have some other claim entirely that is somehow supported by said graph.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Shit, look at the inflection point where Mao dies. That's the real lesson to take here.

[–] v_krishna@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

People forget this. Also they forget that until the 90s Taiwan was an authoritarian military state. I've been to Taiwan, it's a beautiful country and the people are wonderful, but it was founded by horrific and brutal men who were rightfully chased out of mainland China (not to mention there were already lots of people living there, who like indigenous people the world around have been made second class citizens in their own lands)

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 2 points 2 months ago

What a surprise from a lemmy.ml shill.

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Nah man I'm pretty sure I know where the Han people come from.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Quiet, you!!?!

Xi "Dwight Scrute" Jinping