this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
135 points (90.9% liked)

World News

39011 readers
2798 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Swedish police detained a woman who sprayed an anti-Islam activist with a fire extinguisher as he staged a Quran-burning protest outside the Iranian Embassy in Stockholm.

Video of the scene showed the woman rushing up to Salwan Momika and spraying white powder towards him before she was intercepted by plainclothes police officers who led her away. Momika, who appeared stunned but unhurt on Friday, then resumed his demonstration, which had been authorised by police.

Police spokeswoman Towe Hagg said the woman, who was not identified by police, was detained on suspicion of disturbing public order and violence against a police officer.

Momika, a refugee from Iraq, has desecrated the Quran in a series of anti-Islam protests that have caused anger in many Muslim countries. Swedish police have allowed his demonstrations, citing freedom of speech while filing preliminary hate speech charges against him.

Prosecutors are investigating whether his actions are permissible under Sweden’s hate speech law, which prohibits incitement of hatred against groups or individuals based on race, religion or sexual orientation. Momika has said his protests target the religion of Islam, not Muslim people.

The Quran-burnings have sparked angry protests in Muslim countries, attacks on Swedish diplomatic missions and threats.

Sweden on Thursday raised its terrorism alert to the second-highest level, saying the country had become a priority target for armed groups.

Momika said he would continue to burn the Quran despite threats directed at him and Sweden, saying he wants to protect Sweden’s population from the messages of the Quran.

“I have freedom of speech,” Swedish news agency TT quoted him as saying.

Muslim leaders in Sweden have called on the government to find ways to stop the Quran burnings. Sweden dropped its last blasphemy laws in the 1970s and the government has said it has no intention to reintroduce them.

However, the government on Friday announced an inquiry into legal possibilities for enabling police to reject permits for demonstrations over national security concerns.

According to Justice Minister Gunnar Strommer, the inquiry will study legislation in countries such as France, Norway and the Netherlands that he said have extensive freedom of speech but “greater scope for including security in this type of assessment”

all 39 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 99 points 1 year ago (4 children)

So the national terrorist threat level rose because a guy burned a fairy tale book.

Yeah I think that accurately sums up why he burnt it to begin with.

Religion shouldn't have this much power.

[–] shadysus@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I agree people should have the right to burn it.

What's important I think is that burning ANYTHING that people like / consider culturally important is going to make them upset, regardless of what the contents actually are. People absolutely shouldn't get violent over that, but I don't like how some comments (not yours) on these threads are fanning the flames to the conflicts. Hoping for things to escalate just to prove a point is... a bad look.

This next bit is opinion on the burnings: I don't think the burnings are that productive and they don't get much of a meaningful dialogue. Instead they just escalate tensions, deepen divisions / resentment, and when it happens it undermines the goals of the entire thing.

That's not the point of the recent discussions, which are around if it should be legal. I guess I'm trying to say "it's legal, but the act still harms everyone involved"

related example: Burning the Canadian flag is a valid form of protest, and it's legal to do / should stay legal. However, it's usually not productive

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's productive in the sense of raising awareness. Everytime someone burns a book or a flag it sends a clear message and the outrage is usually part of the message.

The message is "I don't care about your culture, your culture does not define me and I refuse to adhere to it" which is perfectly understandable when said culture is trying to force change in areas where people don't want that change.

[–] shadysus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

That's the idea behind it, but it causes more harm to that cause than whatever the gains from it are. Other forms of protest/raising awareness are more effective in the long run.

While I don't know much about the specifics of "culture is trying to force change in areas where people don't want that change", my gut says that the vast majority of people already oppose those changes. An inflammatory 'burning' protest isn't helping much.

Another example that comes to mind are the different types of climate protests. A lot of the public already supports positive changes. So when certain climate groups block roads or access to hospitals, while it's a loud and clear message, it might hurt the cause more than it helps.

[–] anlumo@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

What if the goal of the entire thing is escalating tensions? Threats by Islamists lead to fear in the population lead to rising far-right sentiment in the population. This is a very effective method to get people to support your side (if your side is far-right).

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bro, I’ve seen whole ass streets stop to beat someone up for burning an American flag, only stopping because someone intervened. Overreaction to perceived disrespect isn’t exclusively a Muslim thing.

[–] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

You're acting like American rednecks are totally different than Muslim rednecks in other ways.

thesamepicture.jpg

[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Religion shouldn't have this much power.

The Republican Party would like a word with you.

[–] arin@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

They should go back to the middle east where they do follow that insane religion

[–] YaaAsantewaa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

With all due to respect, if your family was massacred by religious zealots you'd kind of hate that religion too. You can't blame some people for not liking a religion that subjected them to cruelty, it's victim blaming.

Just look at Iran if you want a great example of a Theocratic State formed by religious zealots. No one wants that. Which is why so many flee places like that to begin with and go to the west

This is simply religious nutjobs not getting their way and then using violence and intimidating to get what they want

[–] Chriszz@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Makes me want to burn one too. Fun for the whole family.

[–] giacomo@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Ugh, they made more than one copy you bozos. You're not going to save Sweden from the Qaran, there's like a million copies.

Fuckin Gutenberg bruh.

[–] Guntrigger@feddit.ch 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't really get the "I'm burning it for your own good" defence.

Burning any book doesn't help anything. Reading the Quran doesn't immediately convert you to Islam and alluding to that makes it seem even more powerful than it is.

All historical "dangerous books" should be read with some context and discussion.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It outs the other parties willingness and intent to bend others to their beliefs with force.

[–] Guntrigger@feddit.ch 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think the other party are really trying to convince the quran burner they are wrong though, they just want them to stop defiling their most sacred object.

It's just senseless on both sides to me.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right, but sacred to you doesn't mean sacred to me, which is something they have to accept in a modern globalized society, and the whole point of the burnings.

[–] Guntrigger@feddit.ch 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In a modern globalised society, shouldn't we be tolerating when other people find something sacred, rather than burning it because we don't?

I get that he has beef with Islam because we can see his backstory, but I question the motives of anyone who jumps on the book burning bandwagon.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago

Shouldn't they tolerate my burning the book if I consider religion one of the roots of evil in the world?

Why should tolerance be one sided?

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

In other thread, some Swedes said this whole mess was a Russian ploy to get Turkey against Sweden. But who knows anymore...

[–] 6mementomori@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

please don't let this be a loss for Sweden

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I mean it sounds like they consider Holy book burning a chargeable hate crime… so it already kinda is.

[–] Kayel@aussie.zone 7 points 1 year ago

They should investigate, sure. However, the true test is in the court's. A ruling supporting that Momika's demonstration is in protest and does not preditorally target a religious group would be of benefit to future activists.

[–] Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is because of the potential threat. Burning a cross in the yard if a black man in the southern US is an example. I suspect burning a Torah outside of a synagogue (or even the Israeli embassy) in Germany might be touchy as well. Context matters.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Burning Torahs in front of Synagogues is not illegal per se in Germany. But:

StGB Section 166, "Revilement of religious faiths and religious and ideological communities":

(1) Whoever publicly or by disseminating content (section 11 (3)) reviles the religion or ideology of others in a manner suited to causing a disturbance of the public peace incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a fine.

(2) Whoever publicly or by disseminating content (section 11 (3)) reviles a church or other religious or ideological community in Germany or its institutions or customs in a manner suited to causing a disturbance of the public peace incurs the same penalty.

...the test is whether, taking the whole of public perception into account, your burning was an expression of revilement. As such you have to be careful and keep your mouth shut why you're doing it, including social media posts which might clarify your motive. Oh and state and municipal laws regarding open fires apply if they can't find anything else they'll dock you for improper waste disposal, crimes against the environment and public health, suchlike.

Was in principle introduced back in the days after the 30year war so that Lutherans and Catholics would stop calling each other idolaters and stuff. "Ideology" is a bad translation, Weltanschauung is stuff like Humanism or Stoicism or similar kinds of philosophies.

Fun side note: It's perfectly legal to call the Catholic Church a child fucker cult. It may be a pointed statement but it's a statement of fact with undisputable core of truth which enjoys strict constitutional protection, and it's not suited to disturb the public peace either the Church did that all by itself by being, well, a child fucker cult. "Keep our sins hidden so people aren't angry" isn't what's meant by "disturbing the public peace", no matter how much they'd like it to be that way.

[–] Marsupial@quokk.au 3 points 1 year ago

What?

The man’s been allowed to continue multiple times now and with police protection.

What reality do you live in, because it’s clearly not this one where the complete opposite is being allowed to happen.

[–] toiletobserver@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Repeat after me... My rights end where other people's rights begin.

[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Burning a piece of property that you own doesn't violate any laws that I can think of. Religious fruitcakes love book burning normally.

[–] Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Where they burn books, they will also ultimately burn people. - Heinrich Heine

[–] spiderjuzce@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

I remember reading an article about Muslims protesting LGBTQ inclusion in Canadian schools. I hope these people were just as mad otherwise I don't care. Hell I wouldn't care if someone burned a bible so this isn't really different.

[–] ricdeh@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Not an impartial article at all. It's only "Desecration" to those who believe in this nonsense, if I were to burn a Lord of the Rings copy, would that also be desecration, because that is not more fictional than anything ever stated in any religion. Al Jazeera is famously funded by Qatar and was used as an instrument for the destabilisation of the Arabic world in the 2000s and 2010s in Qatari interests.