this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
265 points (95.2% liked)

World News

38987 readers
2074 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The Biden administration has concluded it is “reasonable to assess” that Israel’s military campaign in Gaza has violated international law, but has not found specific instances that would justify the withholding of military aid, the State Department told Congress on Friday.

In the administration’s most detailed assessment of Israel’s conduct in Gaza, the State Department said in a written report to Congress that Israel “has the knowledge, experience and tools to implement best practices for mitigating civilian harm in its military operations.”

But it added that “the results on the ground, including high levels of civilian casualties, raise substantial questions” as to whether the Israel Defense Forces are using them sufficiently.

MBFC
Archive

all 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Veraxus@lemmy.world 74 points 6 months ago (4 children)

May have?

Our State Dept seems to be a few months behind.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 6 months ago

I feel the same way

But in terms of international politics such accusations must be made carefully and with substantial evidence

I feel they could have had that evidence awhile ago but I'm hoping they took this long to make sure to get as many as possible correctly in the net of "Violating International Law". For example substantial evidence that goes very high up the chain of command of the Israeli military.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 18 points 6 months ago

If they didn't find any evidence it means they weren't looking for it. Or even were actively avoiding widely reported incidents.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 6 months ago

Or we're going to find out this was dated in October and buried until now

[–] twistypencil@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] juicy@lemmy.today 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

No it's not.

Nevertheless, the report, mandated by President Biden, deems that assurances Israel provided in March that it would use U.S. arms consistent with international law are “credible and reliable” and thus allow the continued flow of U.S. military aid.

What a joke.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

For the US state department to say this publicly? Oh yeah, it’s a big deal.

US’s Israel policy doesn’t shift adroitly— considering it has never shifted, not ever.

So, yeah, this means things have changed. That was the point of all those protests, right?

Edit: think it hasn’t shifted enough? Keep protesting!!! it works!

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes, it is. Because if our weapons continue to be shipped to Israel and used Gaza, then it would be a violation of federal law to continue those weapons shipments. And yes, any senior government officials still trying to give arms to Israel after that point should be brought to trial.

[–] juicy@lemmy.today -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nowhere does it say that. This changes nothing.

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

That's because the State department typically doesn't refer to specific statutes when signalling policy changes. To read the laws that I'm referring to, look for the International Traffic in Arms Regulations and the Arms Export Control Act.

[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I know some specific instances if they need appendices. There’s a bunch of mass graves with bullet holes in people’s heads where the dead were wearing hospital clothes and had a different injury. They bombed basically all the civilian infrastructure. We all watched starvation as a tactic happen. They killed more journalists and aid workers than any war I can recall.

[–] livus@kbin.social 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

They're also allowing mask-off genocidal statements in their public sphere. It doesn't sound like much but it's a pretty damning one and well documented.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago
[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago (2 children)
[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 months ago

yes, 11th of May. y u ask?

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

State Department. So diplomatic signals.

Foreign affairs is a constant negotiation. So there's signals. and more negotiations. Tomorrow there will be more signals and negotiations.

Because that's how the whole thing works. As much as the TikTok crowd might want Israel to not exist (which is a little disturbing) the reality is that Israel is going to continue to exist and the negotiations will continue to happen in perpetuity. Screaming "YOU ARE TEH GENOCIDaL MONstARRRR" is not a good play when negotiating, and a failure at negotiating costs lives. And that's Palestinian lives it anyone cares about them beyond making a performance about it.

So the State Department (the diplomats) will make these signals to effect actual change as opposed to the juvenile outbursts we see at college campuses... which accomplishes nothing.

Speak softly while carrying a big stick versus speak loudly with your dick in your hand.

[–] suchwin@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I agree that the diplomats have a lot of things to consider and need to make careful nuanced discussions that lead to effective decisions. However, I think student protests help sway the public opinion and give more backing to such diplomatic decisions.

And US students obviously can't make foreign policy decisions with Isreal, so what else are they supposed to do? Clearly, months of smaller actions haven't seemed to change the situation.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

but has not found specific instances that would justify the withholding of military aid

So after 6 months of "wait for the report" they have come to the conclusion that all the bombs that were used to commit war crimes with exploded so they can't be investigated or something.

Genocide Joe still on that Ethnic Cleansing Grind.

[–] Thrashy@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

I mean, at this point an "ideal" solution (such as it is) would be for the US to stop stonewalling UN Security Council resolutions so that the other members can greenlight a peacekeeping operation a la Kosovo, that would stop the fighting, open up aid flows, and create an avenue for effective enforcement of the 1948 treaty boundaries on the way towards implementing a functional two-state solution. But that seems pretty unlikely right now.

[–] CTDummy@lemm.ee 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You know, I had this really odd thought a couple months ago. That Israel kept fucking up in continuation with how they have been. To the point that US had to play world police again and invade Israel to enforce a dmz around Palestine. Much to the “excuse me, fucking what?” of the entire Arabic world. This headline is in no way aligning with said odd thought but here we are.

[–] Thrashy@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

I mean, at this point an "ideal" solution (such as it is) would be for the US to stop stonewalling UN Security Council resolutions so that the other members can greenlight a peacekeeping operation a la Kosovo, that would stop the fighting, open up aid flows, and create an avenue for effective enforcement of the 1948 treaty boundaries on the way towards implementing a functional two-state solution. But that seems pretty unlikely right now.

[–] slurpyslop@kbin.social 6 points 6 months ago

Pop it on the list

[–] GlassHalfHopeful@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand how they think citizens can be so stupid as to take these statements at face value.

The government gets away with things because it simply can.

🤬

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

It’s not the statement itself. It’s the fact that the US State department has made its first change and its policy with Israel in ever.

That’s a big deal

[–] GlassHalfHopeful@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't pick up what you're saying in this particular article.

If so, it seems painfully too little and far too late. More needs to be done and it needs to be done now.

I understand why the relationship between Israel and the US is important. What I don't understand is why the US can't hold them to account at the same time.

It boggles my mind how the government of the United States so easily facilitates atrocities. They can do better. They can be better.

When I hear "Make America Great Again", it seems everyone has lost their minds in terms of what "greatness" truly is.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I get where you’re coming from and your sense of urgency— obviously. I want Biden to tell Bibi to fuck off with the Palestinian civilian genocide bullshit and to cut off all offensive weapons deliveries 20 years ago.

My point is that US policy on Israel has, really, never changed-- until just now. And that’s a really big deal. I get that it’s not as much or as fast as everyone wanted, but that it happened at all it a tremendous victory. Changing state dept. policy isn’t just some party trick, and changing state dept. policy on Israel is a goddamned miracle. So enough with the “not enough”. Celebrate this victory, pat some backs, and then keep protesting!

Now that policy can be changed, keep fighting for bigger change!

Edit: fixating on that you didn’t get a big enough victory in round 1 (even though it’s the biggest victory by anyone, ever wrt US-Israel policy shift) comes off as ignorant and ungrateful. Take the win and move on to round 2.

[–] juicy@lemmy.today 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 6 months ago

There hasn't been one so they don't know how to respond