this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2024
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On the bunker drill, the former minister said that all secretaries of state - not just defence - have a desk and a bed ready for them in a bunker.

This is not so they are able to survive a nuclear attack "for re-populating our islands after the apocalypse" but "because their departments are as integral to the war effort as the MoD".

Because it's precisely these politicians who should be repopulating after a potential apocalypse /s

Alternate title: "Former military guy can only think about conflict and makes war mongering comments to scare politicians and population"

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[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If you desire peace, prepare for war.

The US has recently proven itself an unreliable ally and can no longer be depended upon. I don't want any armed conflict but now is the time to at least make sure you have the plans and resources in place to prepare for future conflicts. Hopefully they will not eventuate but it seems unwise to bet too much on that.

[–] BigMikeInAustin@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago (4 children)

It would be nice if politicians could understand the cost of war at a soldier's level. Politicians should feel a war; not just sit in their protected and lavish war room barking orders and treating lives as meaningless numbers.

[–] TheRecruiter@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Exactly, those who make the decisions to send soldiers to war should be sent to fight themselves, if not gun in hand at least as front line commanders or something so they feel the same danger and see the same horrors as the human fodder they so happily throw at their "enemies"

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago

I mean true enough but that has nothing to do with preparing for war. To put it simply there's a reason, say, Japan has an army despite their constitution denouncing war.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

U need to stop thinking of politicians as people its better to think of them as representatives for a specific interest group (ur vote, everyone else's vote, and corruption) they make no decisions they simply choose which decision makes the majority of who they represent the happiest.

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

So you are saying we should have a people's representation lobby group and bribe them to do our interests. It does make sense in a negotiation sense, even though it sounds very annoying.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's what democracy is supposed to be.

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not really, but i guess that's the difference between ideals and reality. So, who is founding this group?

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

In the ideal the politicians represent the people. I'm reality it seems they represent whatever gets them money/power.

So, who is founding this group?

That's the good part only the wealthy corporations can afford such things.

[–] eardon@lemmy.ca -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It would be better if soldiers could recognize when they're being used as pawns vs. actually fighting for what they believe in.

Ukraine never had a chance without foreign troops on the ground.

[–] index@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 months ago

a soldier is a pawn by definition

[–] casmael@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago

Budget season again I see

OP comments are on point.

[–] neuropean@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Russia is breaking things out of storage for their widespread conscripted force usage. They were getting their ass handed to them with NATOs leftovers, and somehow we’re supposed to believe NATO is in danger? The first gulf war demonstrated how Russian tech stacks up against trillions in military expenditure.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Europe's military production is severely degraded. Russia looks like a paper tiger now, but they can still pump out ammunition for troops and artillery at a rate Europe can't.

[–] OwlPaste@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This exactly, if you believe that the enemy is completely incompetent, you will get stung by that. Look at the reality of war, lack of ammunition means all those high end toys are stuck doing nothing. Look in which direction yhe front is going.

NATO is left buying ammunition from non eu countries for Ukraine when they need it 6 months ago, would that be happening if we had stockpiles of the stuff for ourselves? Just how much is left for NATO to use for self defense?

[–] neuropean@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The high tech toys deployed by NATO don’t rely on conventional artillery nearly to the extent it’s utilized in Ukraine, and it’s farcical to claim as much.

[–] OwlPaste@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

So just how much ammunition do we have, keep in mind both Russians and Chinese have militatries well over a million soldiers, thousands of tanks and other ivf. How many anti tank weapons does NATO have left? How many himars missiles? And if we do have this stock, why are we not giving it to Ukraine and repying on purchasing shells half way around the world and even then making promised to pay for it but forking over nothing yet?

They need our help now, not tomorrow. This makes me wonder just how much stock of ammunition do we have for all those high tech toys.

[–] neuropean@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Artillery has been the focus of headlines because the military doctrine of Russia and Ukraine relies heavily upon its use. While conventional stockpiles of shells are depleted, it’s production will increase over time and will occur independent of additional military preparation. This is not the ammunition for the bulk of NATO forces.

NATO has an entire modern arsenal of weaponry that is incompatible with Ukraine’s weapons, waiting within arms reach. They’re in talks to acquire F-16s, which are considerably dated compared to the modern stealth fighters, not to mention the stocks of munitions. Ukraine received 31 Abrams tanks. The US alone has thousands, with large numbers considered for retirement due to their age. Not to mention the numbers of infantry fighting vehicles and crews that have trained on all of these systems for years, unlike the rushed training afforded by Ukrainian troops.

They’re already relying on mass conscription to fill their ranks, rapidly approaching the bottom of the barrel.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago

Yes what NATO has given Ukraine up to now has been largely stockpiles of old stuff. That doesn't change the lack of production problem. The raw materials are largely the same between primers, powder, brass, and lead. Europe lacks the ability to produce new or old stuff in sufficient quantity for a real war.

[–] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 3 points 7 months ago
[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 7 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


In a sign of how alien the idea of armed conflict has become to most officials in Whitehall, James Heappey said many departments had declined the chance to take part in a "whole of government" exercise to practice evacuating to a bunker in the event of war.

It was a drill former defence secretary Ben Wallace had pushed for "to get people down to the bunker so they could see what their working environment in war would be", Mr Heappey wrote in an article for the Sunday Telegraph.

His damning intervention came after Sky News this week revealed that the government has no national plan for the defence of the UK or the mobilisation of its people and industry in a war despite renewed threats of conflict.

But any shift back to a Cold War-style, ready-for-war footing would require political leaders to make defence a genuinely national effort once again, sources told Sky News.

Piling pressure on Rishi Sunak, he wrote: "Only a foolish PM wouldn't see that the long-term trend is towards global instability that could easily lead to a new cold war and perhaps something even hotter.

Read more from Sky News:Protests in Tel Aviv after 'half a year of hell'Royal Navy ship to be deployed for Gaza aidWorld's oldest living man reveals secret to long life


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