this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2024
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[–] dugmeup@lemmy.world 164 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Good. Leave Ukrainian soil. Overstretch your military.

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 55 points 8 months ago
[–] YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca 48 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Does he have any left that aren't drunk or in prison?

[–] ivanafterall@kbin.social 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

He's got some kidnapped Indian guys.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 8 months ago

well, can always put the drunk and prisoners there

[–] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz -2 points 8 months ago

This is Russia we're talking about, they never had those in the first place.

[–] deafboy@lemmy.world 45 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Spread them long, spread them thin

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

The nazis did something similar at Voronezh. Half a man for every meter. Guess how that worked out.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 45 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

After he's moved some of Russia's abundant supply of troops to the border, maybe he can also match increasing NATO military spending. Ignore the US, only match Europe. The EU's GDP is over 20 trilion * 2% target = 400 billion.

Russia's currently at 69.5 billion spending, so a 450% increase should get it near EU spending. That works out at roughly 20% of GDP. Maybe increase refinery production and export a bit more oil or export gas to some of the more affluent markets.

Good luck!

I'm sure we'll all be saying "Mission Accomplished" on a very 'special' president's 'special' military operation very soon.

[–] TheChurn@kbin.social 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The raw spending figure isn't what is important, but the PPP figure. Russia's economy is about 1/5th the size of the EU's in PPP, and its defense sector is vastly more efficient on a monetary basis than the west - The US alone has given Ukraine close to $60 billion and it is a fraction of the hardware that Russia has produced with fewer dollars.

This isn't a 'Russia stronk, Europe bad' post, it just bears emphasizing that Russia has a large industrial base and has brought much of it into arms production over the past two years. The West hasn't, and defense procurement remains an almost artisanal process where high tech goods are bought - in low volumes - at inflated prices.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 26 points 8 months ago (3 children)

PPP doesn't really matter in modern warfare. A modern stealth fighter bomber (F-35) is expensive no matter what currency you use.

Russia only has a cost advantage in anything you can mass produce, like bullets or dumb artillery shells. The US and Europe have insane smart artillery shells and RPGs that completely destroy Russian tanks, personnel carriers, and dug in positions. They're expensive no matter who makes them.

Modern weapons and tactics are force multipliers. Money is not really an issue in warfare, only production capacity. The War Production Board in WW2 forced businesses to produce what the military needed at non-inflated prices. Car manufacturers were forced to make tanks and jeeps.

[–] mihies@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Aaaaand they give Ukraine only a tiny fraction of those. Because.

[–] TheChurn@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes, you can make the argument that a hyper-modern vehicle is a vastly more effective weapons system, so the disparity in cost is justified.

That isn't what we are seeing in Ukraine - relatively modern NATO-standard tanks are being knocked out by old artillery, immobilized by old mines, and killed by cheap drones. Industrial warfare in the vein of WWI and WWII is clearly not dead yet.

This isn't to say Russia would win a direct conventional war against the west, but we also can't sit here smugly and claim it would be a steamroll like Gulf Storm given the observations from Ukraine.

[–] Pringles@lemm.ee 7 points 8 months ago

Iraq has shown that with air superiority, you can completely crush any large opposing force with ease if it's executed well. The reason why this turned into a conventional war is because neither side has air superiority. If Russia did, this war would've been over ages ago. That is also why I think in a Russia vs NATO showdown, Russia doesn't stand a chance, not even remotely when it comes to capabilities.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

relatively modern NATO-standard tanks are being knocked out by old artillery, immobilized by old mines, and killed by cheap drones.

"Force multiplier" doesn't mean invincible. By "Gulf Storm" I assume you mean "Desert Storm" during the Persian Gulf War. The coalition forces still lost a lot of tanks, APCs, and airplanes even in victory.

The US in particular sent only 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, and none of them were "relatively modern". Those tanks may have actually been in Desert Storm they're so old!

These few tanks are designed to work in concert with massive artillery and air superiority fighter bombers, which Ukraine doesn't have. Right now neither side has a substantial advantage in the air, and Ukraine just doesn't have enough planes to attack with them.

So the actual thing Ukraine needs is more expensive "force multipliers", like Patriot missile systems and F-16s. Artillery shells, mines, and drones can't protect you from those.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I saw a video of a Ukrainian drone 'factory', which was a large room with some 3D printers and some assembly benches. I think defense spending cost needs to be re-evaluated as a metric.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 0 points 8 months ago

That's because those drones aren't actual weapons. They become ones when merged with existing stocks of old ammunition you already have stocked.

They are (relatively) cheap conversion kits for obsolete shells they have lying around in the 100 thousands and more.

[–] Jaysyn@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

Russia's refinery capacity goes down every ~~drone~~ day.

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 43 points 8 months ago

Lol. What troops?

[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 42 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Just smile and wave to Igor and Dimitry when you see them from across the border. They are all they can spare and I'm sure they're happy with their assignment away from the combat of Ukraine

[–] TheJims@lemmy.world 41 points 8 months ago (5 children)
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[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 32 points 8 months ago

Great, if they're deployed along the Finnish border than they're not in Ukraine

[–] BobsonDugnutt@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago

This reminds me of when I've run out of butter.. I tell myself I haven't and I take the knife and try under the lid, ok a bit there. Then I try all the bits I think I can see. Then madly just take the knife and scrape every section. By now I have covered the bottom right and far right sides of my slice of toast, but that's it.

... Then I make a public announcement that I will butter the top left side with a whole lot of butter

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Gotta dig them back up first Vladi?

[–] Starkstruck@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Putin turning to necromancy and becoming a Lich wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Eye, but from afar the NATOs won't know they are dead. /s

[–] Jallu@sopuli.xyz 19 points 8 months ago

Why is this news? This is the shit Russia has been saying before and since Finland even applied to join NATO.

They like to talk.

[–] baldingpudenda@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

Good, don't forget about Estonia and Latvia you fuck.

[–] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 8 months ago

And will they be Russian, or more human trafficking victims?

[–] Revonult@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In unrelated news, grave of Simo Häyhä found to be empty with single set of footprints heading east.

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

Every Russian think they're gangster until the snow starts speaking Finnish.

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 10 points 8 months ago

Is this the red-line dude who never follows thru with his threats?

[–] nothing@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Forgot about Simo Häyhä, eh?

[–] nothing@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I know he passed, but still the spirit of the winter war.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Jaysyn@kbin.social 9 points 8 months ago
[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Conscriptovich ain't gonna be a threat.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 2 points 8 months ago

Why would he be? He's happy to be deployed to a position that is all show with no chance of actual fighting.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

A small part of me wants him to try something just so we can unleash the Poles and Finns on Russia.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[–] xavier666@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

I think this time he really means it 😱