this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
328 points (96.6% liked)
Linux
48366 readers
1073 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Do we have to bring this up again? It's just boring.
systemd is here and it isn't going anywhere soon. It's an improvement over SysV, but the core init system is arguably less well-designed than some of the other options that were on the table 10 years ago when its adoption started. The systemd userspace ecosystem has significantly stifled development of alternatives that provide equivalent functionality, which has led to less experimentation and innovation in those areas. In many cases those systemd add-on services provide less functionality than what they have replaced, but are adopted simply because they are part of the systemd ecosystem. The core unit file format is verbose and somewhat awkward, and the *ctl utilities are messy and sometimes unfriendly.
Like most Red Hat-originated software written in the last 15 years, it valiantly attempts to solve real problems with Linux, and mostly achieves that, but there are enough corner cases and short-sighted design decisions that it ends up being mediocre and somewhat annoying.
Personally I hope that someone comes along and takes the lessons learned and rewrites it, much like Pulseaudio has been replaced by Pipewire. Perhaps if someone decides it needs rewriting in Rust?
While I agree with the rest I don't particularly believe in this. The unit format is well structured and solves many pitfalls of previous approaches, it also supports configuring a myriad of different things from mounts to sockets and the network in a nice way.
I find systemctl to do a much better job than any alternative that comes stock with distros. I’m looking at you service
Thanks for summarizing my feelings on systemd in a less inflammatory way than if I had written it myself.
I've found that most distributions have implemented it properly and for the most part it works quite well and stays out of my way, it's only when for some reason you have to dive into the minutiae of a unit file and getting into all the dependencies and stuff that it gets annoying quickly.
The dependency system takes a bit to understand but compared to like upstart it was a massive improvement.
Everybody gangsta until
A start job is running for ... (10s / 1min 30s)Or, even worse,
A start job is running for ... (10s / no limit)lol, that brought back memories
I don't see how exactly that is systemd's fault.
You are blaming it for having proper dependency handling?
I'm blaming it for making it a pain in the ass to debug dependency problems and for having the confusing, non-intuitive, overly verbose and redundant syntax that probably caused the problem in the first place.
Like, who the hell can memorize all the subtle differences in behavior between
After=,Requires=,Wants=,Requisite=,BindsTo=,PartOf=,UpHolds=and then all their "reverse" equivalents?You're right that the difference isn't overly obvious. However, for most services,
Wants=is enough. I think some of these (likeRequisite=) came from actual users' demands where they had to solve corner cases in their setup that systemd did not allow with the existing features. I think especiallyUpheldBy=is a smart addition; it adds restarting to a service only if that services is used as a dependency for the one it upholds.I installed OpenBSD and never looked back. This isn’t an option for everyone but I encourage those who have these kinds of feelings to have a look.