74
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
74 points (75.7% liked)
World News
32076 readers
920 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
"Bully punches kid and steals $50, kid only manages to get back $30, is the kid a fucking loser?" This is what the sentiment usually feels like, even if it's not what the reporting is about, please be aware of this.
Let's leave the rest of your narrative alone for second. Kid fights back and loses use of several fingers, loses several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear but has managed to get back $0.10
Ah yes so its the kids fault, proper authoritarian mindset (let's leave the rest of your narrative alone, fuck you I'm right cause I have more power) technically true but I thought you guys were "anti imperialist"
Lol. I don't need to deal with your nonsensical vomit. If you can't even formulate coherent thoughts after looking at real numbers and flying into a foaming rage I don't think I could deprogram your propagandized brain.
Yes 0 evidence and rebuttal and just insults, do continue please?
There was, quite literally, nothing to rebut.
Lmao so what would you describe the massive losses Russia has taken in terms of lives, machinery, and munitions, as well as the open revolt Wagner engaged in? If Ukraine is losing fingers, teeth, and hearing, I imagine Russia has full on lost a limb and has bleeding to stabilize.
That rebellion was probably part of Put-daddy's plan tho, right?
The US is sending more aid per year than Russia's entirely military budget and Russia hasn't even gotten through it's old weapon systems yet.
But that's also besides the point. Let's assume you're right and Russia has lost more than Ukraine. How does that jive with Ukraine's inability to make meaningful progress in their offensive? They've reclaimed something like .2% of their lost territory, which is easily within the margins of the ebb and flow of conflict.
So Putin, who is openly saying that the offensive isn't going as planned, is OK sending tens of thousands of soldiers into the grinder agaisnt better equipment, just to go through surplus? He's choosing to have thousands of Russians killed while sitting on equipment that could keep them safe?
What a guy. Noble cause he's after, de-nazi-fying a sovereign nation, while also getting his citizens massacred in tank columns and shoddy equipment while he keeps the good stuff at home.
Unless that isn't what he's doing? But you did just say they were using old stuff on purpose. You wouldn't be wrong, would you?
I really love how y'all stopped calling it a democratic nation and started saying sovereign nation instead. Really telling.
Sovereign as is the highest authority in the territory. The US is a sovereign nation. European countries are sovereign. In fact, most of the countries on the planet can be described as sovereign nations...
"Sovereign" does nothing to describe the type of governance the country has? Or do you have some wild insight about how sovereign actually means it's an installed dictatorship?
I'm just saying during the invasion all the liberals were referring to Ukraine as a democratic nation being invaded and now it seems you've all backpedaled to calling it a sovereign nation after it's been pointed out they made all other political parties illegal.
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par
Democratic-> sovereign isn't a backpedal; it's describing two different things. You wouldn't say that me describing some apples as green, and then saying there are 3 of them is somehow a reduction in the amount of green the apples are simple because I didn't call them green again.
Sovereign describes the authority to do things on a territory. Ukraine is sovereign; they aren't a territory of Russia, Ukraine answers to Ukraine on its own political matters. That does nothing to describe or rule-out democracy.
If I say "Ukraine is a democracy, who in 2019 held an election described as fair and free by international observers, in which the citizens elected a president of their own volition", would you realize that me describing Ukraine as sovereign in no way, shape, or form, describes it's elective process?
Cause if I need to, I will.
How is this math accurate?
Only got back $.10? Ukraine regained 33% or so of their captured land (or 50%-52% regained of the land lost since the second invasion). So, it would be around $16 or $17 (or $25-26 for the second invasion).
So the bully now has now attacked and lost use of several fingers, lost several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear ... Same goes for his friend he conscripted to help. Plus his work told him he is getting a pay cut (sanctions)
But I don't think could deprogram your propagandized brain.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66383377
That doesn't look like 33% to me
Before 2022, Russia occupied 42,000 km2 (16,000 sq mi) of Ukrainian territory (Crimea, and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk), and occupied an additional 119,000 km2 (46,000 sq mi) after its full-scale invasion by March 2022, a total of 161,000 km2 (62,000 sq mi) or almost 27% of Ukraine's territory.[8] By 11 November, the Institute for the Study of War calculated that Ukrainian forces had liberated an area of 74,443 km2 (28,743 sq mi) from Russian occupation,[9] leaving Russia with control of about 18% of Ukraine's territory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian-occupied_territories_of_Ukraine
You're right my math was off: 74,443/161,000=46% liberated
Oh, I see, you're talking about literally ever single place that Russia walked through at some point in the last 9 years and calling all of that not only "occupied" but also "successfully regained through counteroffensive". A truly expansive definition.
The rest of the world is instead looking at this through the lens of realism. Through this lens, territory is constantly in a state of flux and much territory cannot actually be held successfully. Russia has expressed its intent quite clearly and it is not the total annexation of Ukraine, so assuming the goal of each deployment is annexation leads to terribly faulty analysis. Instead, we look at how the movement of troops through areas that are not holdable are nevertheless strategically valuable in establishing the perimeter that is holdable. This is where the much vaunted "spring/summer counter-offensive" enters the calculation.
Prior to this counter-offensive, Ukraine was deemed to have lost it's 2nd full army and was requesting a replenishment from the West in order to keep fighting. This is when all the Western liberals turned into tankies and kept crowing about the awesome tanks that were being sent to Ukraine for the counter-offensive. Since the launch of the counter-offensive, Ukraine has recovered about 10mi, a tiny tiny fraction of the territory. Worse, they have lost a massive portion of their now 3rd army built on these shipments from the West.
You don't have to believe the BBC, but it certainly runs entirely counter to whatever propagandist BS that wikipedia article reads as.