this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
758 points (94.0% liked)
Mildly Infuriating
35455 readers
763 users here now
Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that.
I want my day mildly ruined, not completely ruined. Please remember to refrain from reposting old content. If you post a post from reddit it is good practice to include a link and credit the OP. I'm not about stealing content!
It's just good to get something in this website for casual viewing whilst refreshing original content is added overtime.
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means: -No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
7. Content should match the theme of this community.
-Content should be Mildly infuriating.
-At this time we permit content that is infuriating until an infuriating community is made available.
...
8. Reposting of Reddit content is permitted, try to credit the OC.
-Please consider crediting the OC when reposting content. A name of the user or a link to the original post is sufficient.
...
...
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
Reach out to LillianVS for inclusion on the sidebar.
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending.
I wanted to highlight
This isn't a "just said", it's a fact. Not tipping isn't a protest, it's a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker.
Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages.
If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping.
If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others.
There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free.
If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option.
If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then:
This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage).
Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others.
Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it.
I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it.
You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it.
I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work.
Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free.
I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right?
That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals.
You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure.
You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled.
You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed.
Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation.
Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet.
Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion
"I have sympathy for underpaid workers."
...but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I'll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor.
"But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such."
I'm sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad.
"Actually your commands sound a bit condescending"
Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn't come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait...
All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then?
I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either.
So I'm listening. What do you suggest?