this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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I don't know if I'm opening a can of worms here, and I'm still trying to backtrack a lot of history where I was tuning everything out. I keep seeing random swipes at Signal (or the representatives (?)), and I was wondering whether they are founded or just lies.Is it another situation like Lemmy where we just "take the technology and move on"? Thanks!

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[–] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If they encrypt meta data like they say they do (https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/), it should be very hard to use meta data the way you explained.
Whether they do can be looked up here (https://github.com/signalapp) by those who know what to look for.
As Signal uses reproducible builds (https://signal.org/blog/reproducible-android/), itcan be verified that the builds are made from the public source code.
They make offering a secure and trustable app a lot better (by being verifyable) than other messengers.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The point is we cannot trust they run the software they claim to run. Identifying a sender despite sealed sender is trivial if u have a centralised server.

Say I am the signal server and all the clients run the known/provable secure clients that are used. I as the signal server an subject to wiretap and gag orders so I can be obligated to run software that is not the published server software and into tell anyone. As a server I by definition have everyone's IP address. A message with signal protocol has a sealed sender and a known identity recipient. As the signal server I can see when u send a message and from what IP and to which identity and what ip that identity is. I can then simply associate IPs and identities.

I trust the app I cannot trust the server. A reproducible build does not prove anything about the server it only proves the client.

[–] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sure. If you want full control, you need to run your own server.
Matrix crosses my mind.
But using that is a different animal than installing an app from a store.
As far as security when communicating conveniently on mobile phone goes, Signal does a pretty good job. But you're right that it's important to realize what's possible and what's not possible.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I use signal for communicating with normies who just wanna download an app. Just cos signal is better than most doesn't mean we shouldn't demand better. Why can't we have both? With self hosted federated signal servers and no phone number requirement we can have our cake and eat it.

[–] zeca@lemmy.eco.br 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

If we have a federated messager that some people self host, would that actually be more secure? i dont know much about how federation works, but i imagine that an intelligence agency could make an instance that would federate to the others, listen to the metadata of the exchanges in the network and rebuild a social graph like a centralized server could. Is this a non-issue?

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 0 points 12 hours ago

Its actually less of an issue with federation. The way most federation works is that messages are only exchanged with servers that have a relevant party, ie if I'm on instance a and ur on instance b then our messages are only exchanged between instance a and b instance c would have no idea about any of it.

Its even better than that because with sealed sender the recipient server will know that u have received a message and from what instance but not which user on the instance.