this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
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[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hopefully I'm not mistaken, but I'm going to assume you are asking in good faith.

Capitalism is an ideology of infinite growth. Capital is only invested for growth, that's the whole point...so corporations have to consume more, produce more, sell more, or capitalists will take away their capital investments. Think of it this way, you're a capitalist (by which, I don't mean someone who believes in the idea of capitalism...I mean someone who makes the bulk of their wealth with capital investments instead of labor) with millions invested in an oil company -- that oil company realizes that we need to phase out the use of fossil fuels for the sake of the planet -- so they announce a plan to limit production (and therefore profits).

Your capital is how you make your money, so if they announce a very finite upside (with a real possibility that in a decade or two, their whole business will dry up), you will quickly take your millions and move them somewhere else. And you won't be alone -- think of the bank run that Silicon Valley Bank had once everyone suspected the bank would have solvency problems. And before you know it, that whole company has lost trillions and fails almost immediately.

Now repeat this while coal, commercial beef farms, and down the line of the worst industries for the climate.

The corporations that are the main source of climate change causing emissions also know that if any one of them chooses to do the right thing for the planet, other, less ethical corporations will see blood in the water, and take over their portion of the market; and nothing will change for the environment, all that CEO will have done is put thousands of their own workers out of business.

Socialism, by contrast, is not an ideology of infinite growth. At it's core, it's an ideology of collectivism -- we all need to take care of everyone else -- this includes making sure everyone has a habitable planet to live on. The government can make sure all companies play by the rules, for the benefit of all humankind, not just do as they do now...ask nicely for the corporations to be nice, and then shrug their shoulders when nothing changes.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago

Well put. I think David Harvey explains this kind of thing in more depth in Rebel Cities. I'll explain his work not as a correction, as I agree with you, but to add to what you said as a different summary might help you people who haven't heard this before.

There's a chapter on the 'surplus capital absorption problem'. The successful capitalist ends every day with more money than they began with. What do they do with the extra, the surplus?

They can spend some, sure. But there are only so many things to buy. And if they don't invest, inflation will make them poorer and their competition will become more competitive, stealing their resources, labour, and customers. Part of the surplus, then, must be invested.

But what in? Everything is already owned by someone. So that leaves new industries, and the destruction of other things that already exist.

New industries implies that it's possible to keep building and building forever, leading always to use more and more scarce and harmful resources.

And destroying things only to re-build them isn't always very nice for the people who live in and use those things. Destructive wars, and consumer goods that break every three years and can't be replaced, are terrible for the environment.

But all this is the essence of capitalism. A system where commodities are produced for their exchange value, not their use value. This the 'commodity form'. It's the exchange of commodities for money that creates the opportunity to profit. It's this profit that allows the successful capitalist to end every day with more money than which they began. The problem of climate change cannot be solved within this capitalist logic.

The essence of Marxism, one might say, is the critique of the 'commodity form' and everything that flows from it. (This is what Marx works out in Capital, Volume I.)

The essence of socialism is the attempt to dissolve the commodity form, to produce things for their use value, not their exchange value. When society makes things on the basis of need and use, several things can happen: no more war; we can make consumer items that last and that can be repaired; we can build habitable, green homes for people to live in, not for property developers to speculate; etc, etc.

The essence of communism is the society that comes after socialists have fully taken us beyond the commodity.

Hence the argument: socialism or extinction.