this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
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Showerthoughts
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I agree with the other commenters who say that the issue is primarily that the Lemmyverse is too small for the grifters to bother influencing, but I also think federation (and the non-profit nature) plays into this.
A site like Reddit generally does not ban members just for being Conservative and expressing relatively mainstream right-wing beliefs. They have to present at least a veneer of "free speech" except in the case of hate speech and violence. In addition, they don't want to drive away Conservative users, because that's where their money comes from.
To a small Lemmy instance, these motives don't come into play. More users actually costs the admins more money. And while they generally don't ban users willy-nilly, they feel they have a right to ban people just for being right-wing dicks.
Ultimately right-wing ideology cannot survive in a space like this except in explicitly right-leaning instances; which will be subject to the "Nazi Bar" effect until those instances are defederated from the rest of the Lemmyverse.
What's "Nazi Bar" effect?
It's a story with a good message
A guy was sitting at a bar one night. One of those dive bars where you make love to your booze and shut up. A guy in some punk clothes walks in and sits down, before he gets to say a word the bartender turns to him and says "No. Get out." The punk argues that he isn't doing anything, he's a paying customer. Bartender reaches for something under the counter and repeats himself "Out, now" and the punk leaves.
First guy turns to the bartender and asks what that was about. Bartender explains that he had Nazi shit all over his vest, iron crosses and other shit. Says you start to recognize them. It starts out nice enough, one guy comes in, he's polite and nice, so you serve him because you don't want to cause a scene, then he comes back with a friend or two, and they're fine, too. But then they bring their friends and it stops being cool all of a sudden and you realize "oh shit, this is a Nazi bar, now" when they take over. It's too late to try and kick them out at that point because they will make it a problem if you try. So you have to nip it early with the first guy no matter how reasonable he seems because the end goal of that guy and his friends is to make it a Nazi bar for him and his cohort of Nazis.
Why are you getting downvoted for perfectly answering the question?
Fascists already invading
Yeah, there are some, but the really low tolerance for them here gives me hope they'll get weeded out sooner than later.
Maybe. The upvotes outweighed them, though. There's also a chance it comes from the punk community. And I'm betting they're more likely to be here than Nazis at this point.
There's a big thing right now that has that community on the defensive trying to erase the connotation between punks and Nazis. I'm sympathetic to the community, actually. You can't control who tries to co-opt your aesthetic so there was a movement in the 80s and 90s aptly named "Nazi punks fuck off". About a month ago, a few videos went viral calling out the fact that they still had swastika patches even if there was a cross over top of them. From my perspective it was a misinformed, but well meaning argument and it's had much of the community on edge, since.
That's a good point that I hadn't considered.
I'd expect someone to raise it as a point, though, because I've seen the Nazi in a bar meme a million times but never has anyone pointed out the problematic linkage of punks and nazis.
I think it's more likely that there are bad faith trolls here already that, rather than engage in a discussion, downvote to silence views they don't like.
https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone
Your problem is thinking your country right wings beliefs concerns the rest of the world.
The Tories are practically just as bad as the Republicans these days
Yup, what the US believes has absolutely no impact on the rest of the world at all, and you are wise not to be concerned. Thank god we don't have right-wingers that intentionally export their views to the rest of the world, or right-wingers that consult internationally with right-wing governments elsewhere in the world trying to reshape their political discourse to be even more right-wing than the USA. No worries at all. Sleep tight!
yeah, the far left seems to be more of a problem here.
lemmygrad leaks regularly
Yea, but the founders are legit tankies who deny Chinese genocide...
Not believing conspiracy theories about supposed Uyghur genocides doesn't make you any kind of radical. Most governments worldwide (including every Muslim nations outside of Europe) do not recognize what's happening in Xinjiang as a genocide.
Let me guess, dictator Chairman Xi Jinping personally developed Covid-19 in a Wuhan Lab to enact genocide against the white race too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
Really? Your source is a Wikipedia article, that literally anyone can edit, and which has an official policy of not allowing pro-Chinese sources?
the truth is all evidence of a supposed "Uyghur Genocide" come from (1). Adrian Zenz, an anti-Communist Christian crusader with a proven record of falsifying data to serve his own interests, and (2). The U.S. government, directly or indirectly (such as the UN commission which was led by a U.S. ambassador). Neither are trustworthy sources when it comes to China.
Ultimately the question is "What constitutes a genocide?". Because, sure - under the most liberal possible definition of a "Genocide" - there's a genocide against the Ughyrs in Xinjiang. But only in the same way that Spain is committing a genocide against Catalonians; or that America committed a genocide against Italian-Americans. Teaching the national language, promoting Atheism, and spreading Communism does not constitute a genocide. Implying that it does is an insult to the victims of real genocides, like those against the Jews and Roma, Armenians, American Indians, and Palestinians.
Except for the part where they support fascism by openly defending the CCP and Chinese propaganda
You don't think a country that actively censors the internet, monitors and jails people who post "wrong" memes or speech, and indefinitely jails minorities couldn't be considered fascist?
People are labeled fascists here and on reddit for much much less.
There's nothing left about lemmygrad. bunch of authoritarian fools who think 'not being capitalist' makes them leftists.
Check my handle lol
Far left is the current problem of the U.S.
you should seek help for your paranoid delusions