this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
322 points (95.2% liked)

Memes

45887 readers
1223 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Allero@lemmy.today -2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Do any of the sources define socialism?

All of this could be true - none of this makes China socialist.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

You said:

China is capitalist... It has private property on means of production, and it is defining Chinese economy just like any other capitalist one.

The response was a well-souced refutation of the idea that the Chinese economy is developing like a capitalist economy. You replied with Wikipedia. All I'm saying is that you're not looking at this in a whole lot of detail and you might have some things to learn.

For instance, you say Nordic countries have low rates of poverty and good social supports despite private ownership of the means of production. But in reality a lot of that is due to sovereign wealth funds, like Norway's Government Pension Fund Global, which is owned by the government and managed by a state-owned bank.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 1 points 5 hours ago

This is all true - state intervention and state-owned businesses and funds bring about a positive change for the majority, and they should be there, but seriously calling those economies socialist would be missing the definitional mark, which is what I have highlighted.

I do believe that moving entire economy under public control would be beneficial, and that, actually, will be what can be called "socialism". Virtually no country, except for heavily sanctioned and blatantly tyrannical North Korea, is currently there.

What we have right now, with heavy state intervention, is certainly better than "free" market economy though, and it reflects in quality of life for the economically disadvantaged - this very intervention leads to these economies following a different path compared to traditional capitalist societies. I do not argue there is no difference between China and, say, US in that regard - the difference is big, it's just not what it takes to call the economy socialist.