this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024
170 points (77.4% liked)
Memes
45887 readers
1313 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Pure comunism sounds nice at first glance, but it also has major issues. Under comunism every one is equal, however inherently people are not equal and should be rewarded accordingly. What this leads to is that high performers are rewarded as much as lazy bums. This causes stagnation in production output as why try hard when you can chill. And as history tells us with Soviet Union, can lead to massive famines. It also creates parallel economies of bribes and favours because well connected and productive people still want to be above every one else, this gives unfair advantage mafias and criminals. As they have no moral problem abusing these parallel economies.
In my opinion, no pure system is good if it's comunusim or capitalism. You have to have a bit of everything like in Scandinavian countries or some Western european countries. You need to reward high performers but not too much. You need to take care of the weak and sick but do not make it that it's not worth working. You have to allow equal access to education no matter your background so everyone has the same starting point.
You must be getting hit by tankies, because this is a perfectly reasonable post.
I worked for a unioned grocery company for many years and there were no merit based raises, because they were negotiated years in advance and dictated by the union contract. Getting any discretionary effort was incredibly rare and difficult, because why am I going to do more and get paid trash wages for it? I'm not saying that's the right way to think, but it's prevelant regardless.
You evidently haven't read the paper, so why do you think you know what Communism even is? Marx railed against "equalitarians." From Critique of the Gotha Programme:
Moreover, famines were ended by the Soviet Union, when they were common under the Tsarist regime. Industrializing and collectivizing improved crop yields and solved the issues of famine that plagued the Tsarist Russia.
Please, if you're going to have an opinion on something, at least do the barest research of the subject rather than imagining a narrative. You can start with my introductory Marxist reading list.
Famines were not ended by soviets take a look at this
The Soviet Union was disbanded in 1991. No, the Soviet system was not magical and thus immediately fixed everything overnight, but took decades of work and industrialization.
I simply replied to your comment with highlighted word 'ended' to prove it did not end it. Now you shift the narrative. Not cool, not cool.
Edit: to add, this famine was not caused by some remnant of problems from previous rulers. It was a direct effect of Soviet policy.
The Soviets did end famine, just not with a wave of a magic wand. Outside of WWII, the 1930s famine was the last famine in Russia, because collectivization and industrialization at the hands of the Communists improved farming methods. The 1930s famine in particular was a mixture of natural causes and mismanagement, but the long term effects were it being the final major famine outside of when Nazi Germany took Ukraine, the USSR's breadbasket.
This wish-washy anticommunism ignores the fact that famines were regular and common under the Tsars for centuries until the Communists stopped it. It isn't "shifting the narrative," you were wrong when you said everyone was paid the same and were wrong when you said this led to famine. You were wrong on your understanding of history and theory at several points each, why speak when you haven't investigated.
"Under comunism every one is equal" No. It follows the "from each according to their capabilities, to each according to their needs" idea
The "phenomenon" you describe is not the cause nor related to the causes of famines within the Soviet Union or China.
Compare "production output" from pre-soviet to Soviet Russia. It was one of the most rapid and dramatic increase in productive output in known history. The first 5 year plan saw gross industrial output increase by 118%.
"It also creates parallel economies of bribes and favours because well connected and productive people still want to be above every one else, this gives unfair advantage mafias and criminals." That very accurately describes the post soviet kleptocracy and modern Russian capitalist state.
"In my opinion, no pure system is good if it's comunusim or capitalism. You have to have a bit of everything" then it stops being communist or capitalist at that point but something else entirely like socialist, syndicalist, communalist, etc. putting every possible form of socioeconomic organization on a capitalist-communist spectrum is extremely reductionist.
Overall wildly inaccurate, uninformed and heavily biased take. Second paragraph shows you have good opinions and solid instincts, you should work on making them a bit more informed.
Excellent comment.
First of all, thanks for a constructive comment. Rare find when discussed politics online.
As a libertarian I have no problem with communism as Marx envisioned it: people spontaneously sharing because they feel like it.
That kind of communism is free.
The problem is when people use guns and governments to force others to “share” against their will. Marx believed that was a necessary step, that would produce the abundance that would allow people to relax and work spontaneously for the collective.
What Marx failed to understand is the most productive economic plan is letting people do what they want (free markets), and that what people want to do is trade.
Marx envisioned full public ownership and central planning, because markets had a natural tendency to centralize themselves. He was not about "sharing" but progressing beyond Capitalism. People want markets and trade now, like they wanted feudalism before the steam engine, but one day markets will subside in the same manner feudalism did.
Where do you get this nonsense?