this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
328 points (97.7% liked)

World News

39385 readers
2202 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Summary

Germany’s intelligence chief, Bruno Kahl, warned that Russia’s hybrid warfare, including cyberattacks and sabotage, could escalate to the point where NATO considers invoking Article 5, its mutual defense clause.

Speaking in Berlin, Kahl noted Russia’s growing military capabilities, including battle-hardened troops and advanced drone warfare, which could pose a direct threat to NATO by the end of the decade.

Russia may aim to test NATO’s unity rather than launch large-scale invasions, raising concerns over potential “red line” provocations designed to undermine the alliance’s credibility.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] foggy@lemmy.world 111 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (7 children)

That's the point.

Russia has aimed to destabilize the US since the cold war.

I feel like I'm m taking crazy pills. The cold war never ended. We changed battlefields and everyone shut up about it.

And in the last 20 years we have gotten our balls stomped. Our enormous military is useless if they can turn it against our citizenry.

How fucking dumb are we?

https://youtu.be/5gnpCqsXE8g

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 58 points 4 weeks ago

A lot. We are a lot dumb

[–] rayyy@lemmy.world 15 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Our enormous military

They have been totally defeated by a perfect storm of Putin's shoe-string psyops, Republican control of the media and the "poorly educated".

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Destroy the propaganda capability and we fall back to confrontations that the West is capable of winning.

[–] Paragone@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

We can't, though:

there's too-many propagandists working for enemy-states WITHIN our countries, now..

_ /\ _

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

I’m now past the middle of this talk. While the points about how subversion works in general are insightful, his diatribe about unions makes no sense. He claims that unions got radicalized and became violent recently and that was helped by Soviet propaganda. That’s brutally wrong. Clashes between unions and company militias were much more violent historically and way before the October revolution, let alone the creation of the KGB. His talking points on this come straight out of Milton Friedman’s mouth. It’s straight up right wing propaganda. Given that right wing propaganda is the reason why the working class is on its knees today and has just elected Donald Trump, it begs the question whether his talk isn’t KGB subversion itself.

E: He gave the CIA coup in Chile that installed Pinochet as a good example for how to stop the process of Soviet subversion. Also straight up said that Americans should support right wing conservatives to curb this process. Restrict the rights on certain groups. Don't elect the gays into power - they're an enemy. 🤦

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I don't agree with his position at all, just sharing an interesting talk that I think gives us insight as to some of what's been going on the past 20 years. My takeaway was that Russia gave up fighting the US with force si they just try to create as much instability in the US as possible.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

100%

There's another point that occurred to me when listening to him. The process of citizens looking over another country's regime with envy as theirs crumbles could occur without subversive action too. I don't think there's much US citizens to be envious for of Russia. On the other hand, I got shocked recently while looking at some income numbers for China. Wages in manufacturing is 104K CNY or US $14.3K. Adjusted for purchase power parity, that's $52K. And look at these growth numbers:

Meanwhile the US equivalent is sitting aroung $57.5K right now. And the growth since the 80s...

If these trends continue it may come a time when it becomes self-evident that the Chinese model is the way to go.

[–] Paragone@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Please keep in mind that independent-journalism isn't allowed, in China,

so .. those numbers may be more propaganda than objective

.. and it isn't just those-numbers, it is the entirety of all information about the Chinese economy which is suspect..

Remember Evergrande group?

They suspended trading of it, due to its imploding, & kept it suspended for, what, 2.5y?

Then it imploded within hours, when re-listed..

They're hard disallowing their entire-economy's implosion,

just as the Biden administration's been doing, after that recent multiply-the-currency-by-7x-but-don't-allow-inflation bullshit they did

( "quantitative easing" has consequences! )

WHEN deciding on which economic-system one wants to be in, it would be wise to decide also on how much percentage of propaganda in one's statistics one is willing to settle for, right?

That too is a dimension of the economy!

_ /\ _

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 3 points 4 weeks ago

It ended. Putin re-engaged.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world -4 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

It went to proxy wars after the cold war. There were a whole series of conflicts and interventions where USA and/or Russia were involved, sometimes more, sometimes less. Ukraine is basically the end boss of the proxy wars.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Ukraine is basically the end boss of the proxy wars.

Russia is not a proxy.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

It's still not a conflict between NATO and Russia directly, so still a proxy war.

a proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 3 points 4 weeks ago

Yea, between the US and NK

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net -4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm just here for the ball stomping (harder pls)

[–] Scubus@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 weeks ago

No clue why this is being downvoted, its the only comment in this thread thats going to achieve anything. (It made me laugh)

[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world -5 points 4 weeks ago

America still behaves like it's in the colonial era. It is the country that has been invading sovereign nations, sabotage and economic warfare. Nobody likes a bully.