this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
112 points (78.3% liked)

Asklemmy

43879 readers
1421 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I genuinely do not know who the bad guys are. S lot of my leftist friends are against Israel, but from what I know Israel was attacked and is responding and trying to get their hostages back.

Enlighten me. Am I wrong? Why am I wrong?

And dumb it down for me, because apparently I'm an idiot.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 58 points 1 week ago (4 children)

while Palestinian refugees fled to their side of the border or neighbouring states.

Technically not incorrect, but too much passive voice. Palestinian refugees were expelled by Israel, either by being directly told to leave or die or through massacres.

The terrorist attack that killed 1200 young Israelis

Another correction: The attack that killed 1200 Israelis, 33% of which were legitimate military targets and 66% of which were civilians. Don't let Israel trick you into thinking Hamas just entered, killed a bunch of civilians and left, because that creates what they consider justification for their genocide.

[โ€“] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 week ago

Also do not forget that on 10/7 Israeli helicopters were firing on civilians and the state censors have been covering this up. There are attempts to ban Haaretz, a friendly mouthpiece for state interests, because they have been reporting on this.

[โ€“] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Another correction: The attack that killed 1200 Israelis, 33% of which were legitimate military targets and 66% of which were civilians.

I never said they were civilians.

[โ€“] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes but that's the implication when you say "the terririst attack that killed 1200 young Israelis".

[โ€“] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[โ€“] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean okay but that's how it reads like, especially because that myth is still alive and well.

They were young people who were gathered for a music concert.

Israel has compulsory military service for young people, so many of them were enlisted in the military. That doesn't change the fact that they were young.

[โ€“] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

If 66% of 1200 are civilians killed by Hamas then

Don't let Israel trick you into thinking Hamas just entered, killed a bunch of civilians and left

is false (they indeed came and killed a bunch of civilians).

I'm not a pro-Israel person, I hate Netanyahu with a passion but still Hamas killing innocent people is not deserving of compassion albeit I understand their reason.

[โ€“] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 8 points 1 week ago

is false.

How so? Hamas attacked a number of Israeli military bases and outposts on October 7th, which was along with taking hostages the goal of the attack. The Israeli narrative conveniently ignores that, painting the whole thing as one big act of barbarism.

still Hamas killing innocent people is not deserving of compassion albeit I understand their reason.

It's not about compassion. They definitely committed a bunch of atrocities on October 7th, and that very much deserves condemnation, but ignoring the very real military goals behind the attacks helps no one but Israel. Nobody really talks about that anymore, but if you remember before it was overshadowed by the genocide in Gaza things like how much of Israeli accusations against Hamas was true, how many casualties were Israeli friendly fire, what Hamas's goals behind the attack were, etc etc were still open questions. The world quite reasonably stopped focusing on these things because Israel kept one-upping themselves in genociding Gazans, but that had the side effect of cementing the Israeli narrative on them as reality in the minds of most pro-Palestinian Westerners. What I'm saying is: Condemning terror that happened during the attack and condemning the attack itself are a different things, and one of them invalidates many legitimate acts of resistance.