this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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Hey, thank you for your insightful comment!
Could you please expand on that and tell me more about people in Crimea and other liberated cities being Russian slaves?
Also while you are at it - could you please also explain to me how being unable to leave your country where you can be kidnapped on a street at any day and sent to die is not considered slavery / is better than "being Russian slave"? How did that happen that "Russian slaves" can move to Ukraine controlled territories at any time and supposedly stop being slaves, but those who are on Ukraine controlled territories cannot do the opposite (and yet for some reason you wouldn't consider them slaves)?
Well, I didn't expect a better answer :)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй
Да, хорошую историю с нашими "героями" которые якобы предпочли умереть чем сдаться русским форсили тогда в новостях.. Потом правда оказалось что они таки все сдались, и даже в википедии на понятном для тебя языке это описано, но история то какая ;)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_warship,_go_fuck_yourself
Anyway, calling me Ivan (a Slavic, not a Russian name) and writing to me in Russian to allege that I'm Russian is incredibly stupid... You do know that Ukraine (except the western part of it) speaks (or rather speaked, until the war and introduction of "language-police" in some cities...) Russian a lot, and especially so in cities? I've heard very little Ukrainian on the streets back when I lived in Ukraine :)
Anyway, you do not seem to be interested in having a discussion or changing your mind :(
Russia is imperialist and I don't trust any of their "referendums" in the occupied regions of Ukraine, given that Russia rigs elections (that's a video of ballot stuffing in Russia).
I do think there is a point to make here. Ukrainians should be free to leave their country if they want. But anyway, I strongly disagree with your view that Russia's imperialist invasion of Ukraine is "liberating" anything or anyone.
But you still support Zelensky's regime that makes it impossible, don't you? :/
You might not believe me, but if Zelensky didn't turn Ukraine into his ~~small~~ huge North Korea where trapped people are kidnapped from the streets and sent to the meatgrinder - I'd be donating money to my country every month. But Zelensky made sure to make this impossible - supporting his regime is supporting trapping innocent people in a war-torn country with missiles/drones/shells flying over them. People afraid of leaving their homes because "recruitment officers" can kidnap them them and send to die. People try to escape this hell, and die trying to "illegally" cross the border through rivers/mountains. Zelensky made sure to become our enemy #1.
But how is this not a liberation? Quote from a dictionary:
People on the liberated territories are not confined and can leave at any time. People on Zelensky controlled territories quite literally cannot leave. You can argue that it wasn't started as liberation. But it is now, unless my dictionary is wrong about the definition of word "liberate". It didn't have to be, but thanks to Zelensky it is.
Are people in Russian-occupied territories free to protest against Russia's invasion of Ukraine? No. They would get put in prison, or worse. So they aren't free.
I do think Ukrainians should be allowed to leave Ukraine. But you seem to be blaming Zelenskyy for the Russian shells, being fired by Russian forces. For some reason you don't want to put any blame at all on the Kremlin - why is that?
Are people in Ukrainian controlled territories free to protest against forced conscription and withdrawal of passports? No, they will get put into prison, and given a choice to join the military or serve a long sentence.
If that's true then both Ukrainians and Russians have impositions on their freedom, but at least Ukraine seems to have had democratic elections over the last 10 years, whereas Russia has been rigging their elections, perhaps since 1999 (or longer than that).
Anyway, I would definitely like for Ukrainians to be allowed to leave their country if they wish. But the blame for this invasion surely rests on Russia. The Kremlin launched this imperialistic invasion in 2022, building upon their earlier invasions in 2014.
The only free people in this reality are billionaires. It's not about who is free, it is about who is more free. Are you trying to say that people on liberated territories are less free than people on Zelensky controlled territories because.. they can protest Russia's invasion of Ukraine? So the ability to protest Russia's invasion of Ukraine is more important than freedom of movement and not being kidnapped from the streets?
Well thank you at least for that (that's not even sarcasm btw, that's already more helpful than most of the world), but again - you support Zelensky's regime which is the one making it impossible.
I blame him for turning Ukraine into his North Korea. I blame him for trapping people, who die trying to cross the border by mountains/rivers, or hide at homes afraid to leave. I blame him for kidnapping people from the streets and sending them to the meatgrinder (so, killing them).
Here it is: I condemn Kremlin, Russia, Putin and everybody else responsible for this war.
Your mentions about North Korea are entirely baseless and fully in agreement with the likes like Zelensky and his US handlers.
I have looked only at the name of the links and not the actual content (there are too many of them) - but I didn't notice anything about North Koreans being able to leave the country by means other than "illegally" crossing the border (this is the criterian I used to compare the countries)? If one of the links covers this topic I'd be interested in reading it.
I mean they have a grand total of 3 borders of which one is shoot to kill zone, and while they have to get passport and probably visa too they can go to China and Russia, though the numbers aren't that high afaik. This is the norm for cold war time in which they de facto still are thanks to the USA, and this is very far from what is currently happening in Ukraine, first and foremost there is no open war and they aren't send up into the meat grinder.
So it's not a problem for North Koreans to obtain a passport and cross the border into China/Russia (and from there to any other country, of course provided that that country will let them in)? From what I've heard it's next to impossible, but if that's just western/American propaganda I'd like to read some articles and learn something new.
I guess it's probably as hard as let's say getting a permit to travel to western country for a citizen of socialist Ukrainian SSR, but even if they were literally welded to place it would still be nowhere near as bad as in Ukraine where the main problem is not being unable to leave but getting kidnapped and thrown into artillery fire. Again not in the slightest similar thing.
Well, I wasn't saying that NK kidnaps and massacres its citizens like Zelensky's regime does, I was referring to not being able to leave the country, and in that regard the regimes seems similar to me.
You wrote this, context is rather clear:
But what is the contradiction here? :)
In my mind North Korea associates with people being unable to leave it (which you don't deny), Zelensky did the same to Ukraine, therefore the analogy.
You are comparing a western nazi puppet who has to be forcibly stopped from comitting genocide with a communist country desperately defending themselves from west for 80 years and being a victim of genocide. Those are polar opposites even if they have some things in common, like i bet people in both countries also drink water.
There can be no justification for mass forbidding people to leave the country.
This is exactly the same justification Zelensky is using. Both are wrong.
What no historical materialism does to a mfer.
Socialist countries in Europe also did restricted the freedom of travel and turned out for a good reason, to not be destroyed. Ukraine does this for a reason to murder its own people. You can't even get a difference so basic, you should really stop.
Well, it seems that we won't come to an agreement here.
As I said, for me mass forbidding people to leave the country is unjustifiable. If some regime does it, whatever the reason, it deserves to be destroyed, and I wholeheartedly support the destruction of that regime. I wouldn't like to live under such a regime and wouldn't wish it for other people.
And yeah, I'm not going to stop caring about mine and other people's freedom :)