this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
272 points (93.0% liked)

Asklemmy

44169 readers
1443 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Cloak@lemmy.ml
mekhos@lemmy.ml
tmpod@lemmy.pt
14specks@lemmy.ml
272
Why do some people defend the billionaires and capitalism? (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
251 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] Jackthelad@lemmy.world -4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The simple fact is that capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty historically than anything else.

Is capitalism a perfect system? Of course it isn't. But it's the best one we've got.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The simple fact is that capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty historically than anything else.

This is patently false, the PRC holds that record and it was due to Socialism, not Capitalism.

[โ€“] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol. Firstly, China claims they've eradicated absolute poverty. Do you really believe that?

Secondly, China has opened its markets to the world and allowed a ton of private ownership and private companies to take on the global markets.

The only thing that isn't capitalist about China is the word "Communist" in the ruling party.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol. Firstly, China claims they've eradicated absolute poverty. Do you really believe that?

Yes, why do you not?

Secondly, China has opened its markets to the world and allowed a ton of private ownership and private companies to take on the global markets.

Yes. Mao misjudged the level of productive forces and tried to establish Communism through fiat. Deng opened the markets to foreign Capital, where the CPC allows businesses to grow in a controlled and careful manner before "harvesting them" into the public sector once they grow sufficiently. The majority of the economy is publicly owned, operated, and planned.

The only thing that isn't capitalist about China is the word "Communist" in the ruling party.

This is an absurd statement that could only be made by someone unfamiliar with Marxism. The presence of markets do not mean that the system isn't Socialist. The economy is socialized by degree, not by decree! You can't establish Communism through fiat, which is why the CPC has been absorbing more Private corporations into the Public sector over time, and exerting more control and planning on the Private sector.

Read Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism.

[โ€“] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, why do you not?

This is a country where COVID originated and with a population of 1.4 billion, yet apparently only 5,272 people have died. They're not great at telling the truth and are masters at propaganda.

This is an absurd statement that could only be made by someone unfamiliar with Marxism. The presence of markets do not mean that the system isn't Socialist.

The profits from companies are retained by the companies. Isn't the idea of socialism that the workers own the means of production and no companies profit? The Chinese economy is set up the exact opposite.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

This is a country where COVID originated and with a population of 1.4 billion, yet apparently only 5,272 people have died. They're not great at telling the truth and are masters at propaganda.

They took much stronger stances against COVID than the US. Not sure what numbers they actually have, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were low.

The profits from companies are retained by the companies. Isn't the idea of socialism that the workers own the means of production and no companies profit? The Chinese economy is set up the exact opposite.

You have a fundamental misconception of what Socialism is. It isn't an ideal to be forced on a society, but the result of markets coalescing and centralizing, to be planned. Additionally, the majority of the PRC's economy is in the public sector. Private Property is abolished and absorbed by degree, not decree.

Read Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism. I already recommended it, and you have not read it. Read it, it only takes 20 minutes.

[โ€“] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

TBH... It was due to free market reforms. Which in of itself is not capitalism though but normies can't tell the difference.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago

They weren't "free"-market reforms. A good, 21 minute read is the article Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism. The PRC brought back markets because they tried to achieve Communism through fiat, without letting markets adequately coalesce into monopolist syndicates ripe for socialization. The Dengist Reforms brought stability to growth and prevented recession, but the bulk of the economy is publicly owned and centrally planned.