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Thinking on it, it was probably also costing them what are now valuable resources to keep them alive. When it's near impossible to get in and out of Gaza, food, medicine, etc. are worth their weight in gold.
So instead of letting them free they murder them?
Why would they let them free when they consider them the enemy?
Because now they'll be pursued for the rest of their life. Free a hostage and you have essentially a get out of jail free card.
Do you really believe that any member of hamas would be safe just because they let some hostages go? How would that work? Should they surrender themselves to the IDF while delivering the hostages, just notify them of where they are so they won’t be bombed or how would that all work?
Israel has tip lines set up for Hamas members and members of the Gazan public to call. You call and say, "me and my boys will have an unspecified number of hostages at x location at y time and are looking to surrender. Then you show up at that time with those resources and surrender.
Are there any examples of it being used successfully and the aftermath of it? This is a genuine question stemming from my own ignorance on the subject. I would really like for that to be a good way of handeling situations where hostages are released, but I could easily understand why a member of Hamas might have reservations if they do not have reason to trust the system.
If there is good reason to trust it I will agree that that would have been a viable and good way out and should have been used.
Yes, every so often a news report comes out about individual Hamas members and cells surrendering. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=individual+hamas+members+surrendering+to+IDF
Unfortunately I am still unable to find any stories that tells what happens to the Hamas members after their surrender. I’m unsure if they get treated well or are sent to the same facilities in which there are reports of human rights violations amounting to psykological and physical torture.
I did find some examples of successful surenders, but nothing where hostages were explicitly mentioned to have sweetened the deal of surrender.
I do believe you may be right but I have been unable to verify it myself.
With their countrymen reportedly dying by the thousands in their behalf. They should surrender en-mass anyway. They've been defeated. Prolonging the war only prolongs the suffering.
There's a genocide on buddy. They already were.
There wasn't a "genocide" on Oct 6th.
Just cause you weren't paying attention yet doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
Ahh so are you one of those "genocide is what I feel it is" folk or one of those "genocide is when the Jews are still alive" sort of folk?
Did you know there are Jewish palastinians? On top of that, Palestinians are semitic. You can't call racist when the group I'm defending is in the same racial group and contains religious Jewish folk. It ain't about being Jewish, it's about the fact I have seen palastinians getting shot in the street for literally my whole life. My whole life I'm hearing news every now and then how Israel overstepped again and ethnically cleanse an area of palastinians. How they kicked palastinians out of their home. I've seen videos of Israeli settlers kicking palastinians out of their home at gunpoint saying that the state sold them the house. It's a state doing a genocide. It isn't "the Jews" you fucking moron. It's the state of Israel. Interesting how you see Israel as being an ethnostate but don't see their removal of natives as genocide. But that's what happens when you don't think about your ideas longer than 5 seconds.
About 50% of Israeli Jews are descendants Arabs, Persians and North Africans who were forcibly relocated to Israel by the leaders of the Arab world or native to the region. Israel is a reservation, agreed to and established by Arabs as part of the agreement between their leaders and European leaders to overthrow the Ottoman Empire.
In the West Bank or the Gaza strip? Because there are no and have been no settlements in the Gaza Strip in a generation.
So again, is it a genocide because you feel like it or because they're Jews?
I ain't arguing. You are an evil motherfucker willing to justify a genocide. Ain't no convincing you. Ain't no convincing me. Your wrong and I hope one day your heart opens and sees it. Or at the very least I hope for your sake the afterlife contains no hell.
You're an ignorant person man. Your mistaking a war with a genocide. Hamas can end the conflict tomorrow by surrendering. A conflict they started by murdering, enslaving and raping undeniably innocent people.
If Hamas surrenders and the bombs keep falling nobody will be yelling genocide more than I. But equating incompetence on the part of Hamas's defense strategy and stubbornness on it's war goals with a genocide. Hamas' blind and overconfident aggression is the cause of theses deaths in Gaza. Being blind to that doesn't make you moral.
Soulless, heartless, justifier of genocide. I ain't talking to ya. I ain't even reading it. There's no amount of information to justify what Israel has done. Even if Hamas was everything you want to believe they are, the embodiment of pure evil, that still wouldn't justify genocide. Just cause it's a "war" doesn't mean you can just blow up civilian buildings and shoot humanitarian workers. Bet your the kind of mindless scumbag who thinks the nukes were justified too. Targeting civilians means nothing to you.
I hope one day you could be on the receiving end of someone else's ""justified war"". Live in the shoes of a person born on the wrong side of the border. Maybe that perspective of watching your family and friends and neighbors die on a daily basis would change you.
Everything you need to know about your position.
I don't "hear out" the reasons a Nazi has for justifying genocide. Do you? Like to sit at their table and have a chat? Listen to his drivle and morally unfounded bullshit? You sure do. But I don't listen to Nazis.
Dude dunking on Nazi's is sort of what I do.
And yet, here you are, arguing for a genocide. Calling people who recognize it as such "naive" for not understanding how justified this genocide is! Don't he know how evil that palastinian civilian population is? Don't he know that they had it coming? That they deserve it? That it's the only way to stop them? I do not care for your justifications when the thing your justifying is ideals of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide. I do not care for whatever justifications you tell yourself to hide the shame that you ain't any different than a swastika wearing son of a bitch.
I'm arguing for a Hamas surrender. Don't know if you realized but there's a war on. What your mistaking for a genocide, is a war. A war the side you seem to support started. And a war they can end tomorrow with a surrender.
I hope one day you look back on this moment of belief and shatter.
Honestly I hope you look at it now and shatter. This support for Hamas (both fiscal and moral) coming from people like you is the #1 thing preventing the rise of a legitimate, independent Palestinian state. And the #1 empowering the poverty of the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza.
When we in the West defacto tell Gazans, "Kill them Jews we got your back, we'll help you rebuild, we'll pressure them to allow themselves to be enslaved. You've got it so bad; it can never get worse." We're giving Gazans a false sense of security. If Gazans were black they would never receive this level of foreign support. If they weren't attempting tourser Jews, they'd never have this level of support.
According to the UN there are 195 countries in the world, including Palestine. 194 of them receive less per capita aid and commit less per capita terrorism. Gaza could easily become the Madagascar or Haiti or Chad in 6 months and be 1000x worse off than they are today.
https://slrpnk.net/post/13389195
1 / 3rd are children. Fuck your "war"
Your war. The people you support, Hamas, started it.
If you don't have the resources to provide for your POWs, the correct solution is parole, not execution.
Hamas are terrorists. They work through terror.
How would you propose safely paroling them? There's already examples of released hostages then being killed by the IDF.
Any type of parole has to be at least marginally less dangerous for the hostage than execution.
If they die either way, no it isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam_Haim,_and_Samer_Talalka
Sounds equally dangerous to me.
Execution has a kill rate of 100%.
Even if paroling is stupidly risky, the ods of death are still <100%.
It would also be seen positively by everyone and one propaganda piece less for Israel to use.
Let’s argue with reason and not pretend that because it has happened before it will happen every single time. Cock-ups happen everywhere.
They did what you suggested with those specific hostages. It was not seen positively by everyone.
They also did it with other hostages that the IDF didn't kill. It was not seen positively by everyone.
So you're right, let's argue with reason. We can reason that what you're suggesting doesn't work based on what they've already done.
My friend, you are literally arguing that executing hostages is the same as attempting to release them under extremely risky conditions because it has failed in the past.
If that is truly your opinion, then I honestly have no more to say. I can’t reasonably argue with that type of opinion.
I still wish you a great day though and hope the fighting ends soon.
No, I am literally arguing that this claim of yours has already been tried and failed:
And the reason I am arguing it is that it has already been tried and failed.
Yeah no mate, you don’t get to hide behind the argument that because it doesn’t have a 100% success rate, we might as well execute them. Murder is always unnacceptable
Historically you've shipped them to a neutral nation (like Switzerland) who negotiated their return to their home country on the condition that they not be allowed to rejoin the war effort either for the duration of the war or for a specific time.
None of these things are solutions that haven't been seen before.