Yeah, while I agree with the core message rebuking ecofascism and pointing out that environmental damage is a capitalistic issue, depicting indigenous folks as the sole tenders of the land is some Noble Savage shit.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 5 points 1 year ago

Do you know where Noble Savage myth came from? From legitimate dialogues between Europeans and Indigenous during the colonization of the Americas. Dialogues like the ones between Kandiaronk and Lahontan, that Europeans were so racist they couldn’t believe were from an indigenous person, so instead they claimed that their countrymen were using metaphor with absolutely no evidence.

[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Noble Savage shit.

THAT'S the term! Thank you! It was reminding me of the Mystical Blackman trope.

I'm just gonna stop and bitch for a second. As friggen disappointing as it is to see left leaning individuals adopt bigioted attitudes, do you know what the real disappointment is? All the people that don't say something. All the people that don't do something.

People will sit there and talk about bringing down the system, about how horrible the right is, "eat the rich" and all that. They'll post memes everyday about challenging the status quo, but when push comes to shove it's crickets.

Meanwhile I'm getting ready to kamakazi my latest social group for the umpteenth time because someone in the group was intentionally violating the personal space of another. I know no one is going to have my back.

People talk a lot lately about the paradox of tolerance and use that as justification for censoring certain political opinions. The problem isn't tolerance though, it's the silence. It's people not wanting to make themselves uncomfortable, or unpopular.

-ninja edit-

After some discussions with chatGPT what im describing relates to "The Spiral of Silence"

The phenomenon you are describing is known as the "spiral of silence." The spiral of silence theory, proposed by German political scientist Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann in the 1970s, explains how public opinion is formed and how individuals may withhold expressing their views if they perceive them to be in the minority. This theory is often applied to political and social contexts, including the rise of ideologies like fascism.

In the context of fascism or any other controversial ideology, the spiral of silence suggests that when people believe their opinions are not widely supported, they tend to remain silent and refrain from expressing their views publicly. This silence, in turn, can create an illusion that the majority supports the prevailing ideology, even if it might not be the case. As a result, individuals who disagree with the ideology might feel isolated and discouraged from speaking out, contributing to the seeming growth and acceptance of the ideology.

Several factors contribute to the spiral of silence phenomenon:

Fear of isolation: People often fear social isolation or rejection, so they may choose to keep their dissenting opinions to themselves to avoid potential negative consequences.

Perceived social norms: Individuals may gauge the acceptability of their views by observing the prevailing opinions within their social circles and in the media. If they believe their views deviate significantly from the perceived norm, they are more likely to remain silent.

Amplification of dominant views: When a particular ideology gains prominence and is amplified through media coverage or dominant social groups, people may perceive its support to be more significant than it actually is.

Social media echo chambers: Online platforms can exacerbate the spiral of silence by creating echo chambers where people are exposed only to like-minded opinions, leading them to believe their views are in the minority.

The spiral of silence can hinder healthy democratic discourse, as it suppresses the diversity of opinions and prevents the exchange of ideas. Overcoming this phenomenon requires fostering an environment that encourages open dialogue, respect for diverse perspectives, and protection for free speech. By promoting inclusivity and ensuring that people feel comfortable expressing their opinions without fear of retribution, societies can better counter the rise of ideologies like fascism and encourage constructive debates on important issues.

✌️😝

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The noble Savage trope is itself a racist trope that came out of colonial Europeans bigoted beliefs that indigenous could not possibly be civilized, and thus that any seemingly civilized points made by an indigenous person were actually made by Europeans as a critique of their own culture. Look into Kandiaronk and Lahontan. There is mountains of proof that not only did Kandiaronk exist, but that he directly participated in debates with the European governments that colonized the area he was from. There is Absolutely no evidence that any of what Kandiaronk said was anything other than his own words, yet the noble savage myth allows Europeans to claim that he couldn’t possibly have done so. So, no, I don’t think this is noble savage stuff, and I think the noble savage myth serves primarily to prevent meaningful critique from coming from outside of the dominant hierarchies by infantilizing indigenous people.

On your other point, I agree to a point.

Your comments reminds me of MLKs talk of the white moderate, who prefers the absence of tension to the presence of Justice. Many people will choose not to “rock the boat” to keep “peace”, rather than stand up for Justice and create Peace. It is very important we do not stand on the side of moderation in the face of injustice. I’m sorry to hear no one stands up to those people in your group. I would also leave a group in that situation.

[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

The noble Savage trope is itself a racist trope that came out of colonial Europeans bigoted beliefs that indigenous could not possibly be civilized, and thus that any seemingly civilized points made by an indigenous person were actually made by Europeans as a critique of their own culture. Look into Kandiaronk and Lahontan. There is mountains of proof that not only did Kandiaronk exist, but that he directly participated in debates with the European governments that colonized the area he was from. There is Absolutely no evidence that any of what Kandiaronk said was anything other than his own words, yet the noble savage myth allows Europeans to claim that he couldn’t possibly have done so. So, no, I don’t think this is noble savage stuff, and I think the noble savage myth serves primarily to prevent meaningful critique from coming from outside of the dominant hierarchies by infantilizing indigenous people.

Regardless of what Kamdiaronk said I don't think it's right to stereotype indigenous people right here right now.

[–] CorruptBuddha@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

The noble Savage trope is itself a racist trope that came out of colonial Europeans bigoted beliefs that indigenous could not possibly be civilized, and thus that any seemingly civilized points made by an indigenous person were actually made by Europeans as a critique of their own culture. Look into Kandiaronk and Lahontan. There is mountains of proof that not only did Kandiaronk exist, but that he directly participated in debates with the European governments that colonized the area he was from. There is Absolutely no evidence that any of what Kandiaronk said was anything other than his own words, yet the noble savage myth allows Europeans to claim that he couldn’t possibly have done so. So, no, I don’t think this is noble savage stuff, and I think the noble savage myth serves primarily to prevent meaningful critique from coming from outside of the dominant hierarchies by infantilizing indigenous people.

Regardless of what Kamdiaronk said I don't think it's right to stereotype indigenous people right here right now.

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