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Let us show Putin we have ability to hit targets deep inside Russia, Ukraine urges west (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

127 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ukraine wants permission from the west to use long-range Storm Shadow missiles to destroy targets deep inside Russia, believing this could force Moscow into negotiating an end to the fighting.

Senior figures in Kyiv have suggested that using the Anglo-French weapons in a “demonstration attack” will show the Kremlin that military sites near the capital itself could be vulnerable to direct strikes.

The thinking, according to a senior government official, is that Russia will consider negotiating only if it believes Ukraine had the ability “to threaten Moscow and St Petersburg”. This is a high-risk strategy, however, and does not so far have the support of the US.

Ukraine has been lobbying for months to be allowed to use Storm Shadow against targets inside Russia, but with little success. Nevertheless, as its army struggles on the eastern front, there is a growing belief that its best hope lies in counter-attack.

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Dude, Russia is not holding back it's equipment. A lot of it is being tracked behind spotted on parade and such in Moscow and then blown up on the front. They didn't even have optics for the vast majority of their troops despite the big advantage of the newer AK platform they adopted being that optics fit on them. You'd never see the US, for example, send that many troops to fight without optics, even assuming they're holding back.

If Russia is holding equipment, they're stupid. They should have just deployed it to the front and ended the war. They didn't do this, and the reason is obvious: it doesn't exist. They're sending shit from the Cold War to the front because that's what they've got. They aren't some amazing superpower that's just playing nice with poor little Ukraine. They want this war over desperately, so they would end it if they could.

[–] Antmz22@lemm.ee -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

A lot of it is being tracked behind spotted on parade and such in Moscow and then blown up on the front.

That doesn't mean it's all the best equipment. Both sides have a lot of equipment moving through the country then blowing up on the Frontlines, the difference is only one is constantly telling the media that they are running out of equipment and men, and that's Ukraine not Russia.

You'd never see the US, for example, send that many troops to fight without optics, even assuming they're holding back.

The US (while not particularly caring for them once they do return) notoriously doesn't like losing its own militarys lives in war.

Russia is literally sending criminals, unwanted immigrants, and dissidents to the front lines with no expectations of them to return.

If Russia is holding equipment, they're stupid. They should have just deployed it to the front and ended the war. They didn't do this, and the reason is obvious: it doesn't exist.

Except they did do this initially and they made huge ground gains basically sweeping the entire Donbas region. It wasn't until Ukraine recovered and changed the dynamic from quick "special military operation" to entrenched warfare when Russia pulled out the older equipment to lessen the effects of their bleeding.

I've been alive since (longer than) 2022, I've seen the stages of the war and I've seen the statements put out from both sides.

I remember when Russia was steamrolling through Donbas and Ukraine was panicking so much they considered a peace deal until Boris Johnson talked them out of it with the promise of continuing support.

I've seen the continuous desperate calls from Ukraine for more equipment and the increasing conscription which is upsetting their population.

Then I realize I've seen none of that from Russia, and the EU still respects Russias ability, so why would I conclude that Russia is in the same boat as Ukraine with a rapidly expiring military?

They aren't some amazing superpower that's just playing nice with poor little Ukraine. They want this war over desperately, so they would end it if they could.

They aren't playing nice with Ukraine, for the 100th time. Idk why y'all insist on this specific childish reduction of "playing nice".

They are playing strategic with all of NATO. They want to win the war, but they don't want to show their full hand to NATO, especially if it's weaker than they want people to believe and would leave them weakened for a potential counter.