No you; the argument was never that Taiwan is independent, even our government has never acknowledged that; only utter imbeciles ever thought that was the case.

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The KMT doesn't represent Taiwan. Tsai, obviously the former president, has already said that Taiwan is already independent and doesn't need to "declare independence". China's position is 100% LARP. Their claim is that they already own Taiwan, which makes no sense at all.

There are basically ZERO pundits anywhere that know the history of Taiwan. They either parrot same NAFO-type propaganda or CPC propaganda -- which is basically that Taiwan is an "inalienable part of China", which is simply historically false. Throughout most of Chinese history none of the leaders gave two shits about the island of Taiwan until it became part of an important trade route. THEN the Qing dynasty started to administer very very small parts of it. They were later forced to give up their rule on those parts of Taiwan to imperial Japan for many reasons (yes, imperial Japan is bad). Afterwards, there still wasn't much of a concern for taking Taiwan, either from the CPC nor the KMT. It only started happening after KMT lost their war and started claiming Taiwan was theirs and planning their escape plan. Shortly afterwards, the CPC said Taiwan was there's as well.

In the bigger picture, aboriginal Taiwanese have arrived at Taiwan in various periods, starting around 6000 years ago. The vast majority of "Chinese" that came to Taiwan came starting around the 1600's due to the Dutch East Indian company encouraging immigration from China and later on the Qing dynasty encouraged immigration as well (1800's). CPC propaganda makes it seem like "Chinese" presence in Taiwan all came from the KMT fleeing to Taiwan or something. The KMT and all of their descendants only make up less than ONE FIFTH of the population of Taiwan.

Anyway I skipped over a lot of history including Dutch atrocities in Taiwan, a Ming loyalist dispelling the Dutch, and the Spanish colonization of (small parts) of Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa
Taiwanese identity is also very important and unlike what the CPC says, it's not about being "anti-Chinese" or "not Chinese", which makes no sense.

Also, what does being loyal to "China" actually mean? The Ming dynasty had conflicts with the Qing dynasty, which one was more Chinese? Is the CPC responsible for everything bad previous dynasties did? Should the CPC take responsibility for KMT atrocities?? If no, why not? Do they own all the land that previous dynasties have owned? Does the CPC own all land that Chinese people live on? (Chinese nationalists actually use the ethnostate argument as a reason as to why the CPC should own Taiwan).

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 5 months ago

It would be awesome if Taiwan were rid of the dominance of the Han Chinese and recognized as an aboriginal nation-state led predominantly by the aboriginals. Unfortunately, just like the KMT, the West would ensure that such a state would be part of the fascist empire and used against China regardless of the will of the aboriginal peoples. Maybe someday Taiwan can be decolonized, but not until the European empire ends. Decolonization before that will end up like decolonization of Africa did - with European capture, counter-revolution, and the building of imperial military extensions.

[–] Stitch0815@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 5 months ago

Sure

[–] SoyViking@hexbear.net 22 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Taiwan is China, even the separatist regime in Taipei agrees on that.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Bro, you literally called them separatists lol

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How many countries recognize Taiwan again?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why would it need to be more than one?

And it's 12, counting the Vatican.

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Is the US among it? And why are they choosing to arm Taiwan instead? Do you think the US would be chill if another country decided to arm Hawaii,Puerto Rico, Alaska,.. ?

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

FYI the weapons are basically shit (there's agreement among Taiwanese and Chinese nationalists) and can't be used for force projection at all. In Taiwan purchasing of these arms is considered paying protection money to the mafia. In the US it's spun as helping Taiwan protect itself against China. In China it's spun as the US interfering with China's "internal affairs" since they're larping as owning Taiwan.

I do agree that the US is trying to bait China into attacking Taiwan though. The special forces in Kinmen to train kids (they're probably <23 years old) to pilot microdrones? LMAO. I'm not sure if CIA intelligence (as opposed to operations) even know the actual reason of why China wants to claim Taiwan. They may believe in their own propaganda.

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The KMT doesn't represent Taiwan. The CPC should have finished them off/sent them to jail. Mao was for Taiwanese independene from it's Japanese colonizers.

[–] Kumikommunism@hexbear.net 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

So the southern US is its own independent country right? The losing side of civil wars gets to keep "their" land? (Actually this is being too charitable to Taiwan, they actually invaded land and called it theirs)

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The KMT and CPC are both from China. The vast vast majority of Taiwanese are not KMT from China nor any of their descendants.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 months ago

Unless you suggest that KMT is a nationality or ethnicity, 95-97% of Taiwan population is Han Chinese (mostly Hoklo and Hakka), and barely 2% are indigenous.