892
Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths
(www.theverge.com)
this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2024
892 points (95.8% liked)
Technology
59314 readers
4719 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
No. That whole statement INCLUDING what you quoted was me allowing you to invoke it.
Literally : "And that would be fine and dandy for Tesla’s case if you wish to invoke it." Then I stated why that's bad to invoke.
You can claim I'm willfully ignorant. But you're just a moron Elon shill.
And there's why I'm just going to call you a moron Elon shill and move on. You're full of shit. All they do is claim that it's amazing/perfect. Then you buy the car and you expect the function and it doesn't do it, not even close.
Ah yes, the classic internet response of calling anyone you disagree with a shill. Because clearly someone disagreeing with you and pointing out issues with claims means they must inherently be defending a company without any valid claims. Easy to ignore when you don't consider them a real person having a discussion.
No point in arguing with someone unwilling to have an actual discussion and just resorting to calling someone a shill because they refuse to accept a different point of view can even exist.
"You're a shill, so nothing you say matters".
When you outright lie about the facts it's hard to have any other opinion about you. So yes, you're a shill
I haven't said a single lie. What do you think is a lie?
Tesla does differentiate the capabilities of Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving. They do not claim that basic Autopilot will do the more advanced functions, they specifically refer to FSD when making those claims.
Aircraft Autopilot systems DO vary in capability, and a basic Autopilot system there DOES have similar functionality to basic Tesla Autopilot.
People DO try to directly compare Tesla's most basic Autopilot to the most cutting-edge aircraft Autopilot systems instead of comparing it to basic systems.
Which I've already established is a fair assessment as most passenger planes DO have those functions. You ignored this. And continued to repeat your bullshit. Most people will not be familiar with the lesser autopilots (or more accurately attribute them to much older and lesser planes) because passenger airlines (the air transports more people ever get on) don't tend to have the lesser ones. You made the bold claim that these "Advanced" functions don't count in autopilot because planes don't even have it! You're FULL of it. Autoland has been around for over 50 years at this point. Hell we even have systems now (though not yet standard as far as I know) that can do autoland in emergency situations, (eg. not preprogrammed approaches/landings) https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/garmin-autoland-wins-2020-collier-trophy/.
Barely, actually let me challenge you here with one simple task... Go to their website and spec out a Tesla. When you get to the self-driving part. Find me where they define either term. Also notice the graphic that plays on the page too. I want you to specifically notice that "Auto lane change" and "Auto steer" (Which are simply "autopilot" features) are present on that definition. So when you buy a Tesla, and those features work and the ONLY time you've seen them shown was in reference to "Full Self-Driving"... This is why there's a class action going on, they do not define this shit. Or are you going to ignore that too? Notice that Tesla has started using the term "Supervised Full Self-Driving" (or Full Self-Driving (Supervised)) as a term. Because they've been caught out in the lie now and are trying to recover. If you actually want to continue this conversation in good faith you would prove that they present the differentiation at all between the two terms BEFORE a customer buys the product. Because only one thing is ever advertised and done so poorly that it insinuates both things are the same for Tesla.
Basic Autopilot is included with all Teslas now (standard as of April 2019), so it isn't an option you can select anymore in the configurator like it used to be. Enhanced Autopilot also is no longer offered, so the only upgrade listed is for FSD, because that's the only upgrade available now. It is listed separately from the included features and basic upgrades like paint color, wheel choice, and interior options.
The relevant linked support page at https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot goes into specific detail about what is included with both currently available options.
All the functions listed with the FSD upgrade, are NOT included with basic Autopilot and never have been. Enhanced Autopilot, when it was offered, included all the currently listed FSD options other than Autosteer on City Streets and Traffic and Stop Sign Control.
I used the Model 3 for reference, in case different options are there for higher end models.
Well, you're wrong there. Auto lane change is NOT part of basic Autopilot and never has been. That is part of Enhanced Autopilot and FSD. Also, there are two options for Autosteer listed and differentiated based on road type. Autosteer under the Autopilot option is lane-keeping on highways, it even specifies that in its definition. FSD on the other hand specifically says "Autosteer on city streets".
Where?
"Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control"
Where is "highways only" defined? Even their new definitions aren't consistent.
And great... I have to dig through support pages to find it!
Which exactly 0 competitors do. Hyundai, Toyota, Volvo... every company page I look at makes it abundantly clear what comes on the product (on the sale page) without digging through support pages. You know what else they do? Specify the feature without calling it some "fancy" shit. Adaptive cruise control is called out as just that. Not renamed to "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control" and then hidden under "Autopilot" with a vague definition and only presented to you at the sale page under "Full Self-Driving".
Here's a snippet from the user manual of a Model 3 2022... (I've reformatted it a little bit... cause the raw copy-pasta was atrocious)
And another snippet from a model 3 2020 manual...
So is smart summon, Auto Lane change, Navigate on Autopilot, an FSD thing? Or an Autopilot thing? I thought that Autopilot was just super simple? I thought the features WERE NEVER included in autopilot definition... And yet YEARS of manuals for the damn product says you're wrong. And that their current definitions have been modified.
Autopilot according to Tesla's OWN manuals is the feature set that ALL other "smart" driving features fall under. Just like with plane-based autopilots funny enough. But you do you man. There's no changing your mind on this and you've made that clear long ago. I just hope that others see how absurd this all is.
Edit:
Also would like to see where that definition is... Cause you used the term... but it doesn't exist anywhere else.
Edit2: https://tesla-info.com/doc/mx/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en_2019_0.pdf
For Model X as well (and in NA in case you're going to say "other regions")... Check page 95 in the pdf... Weird that a 2019 Model X has all those features labeled as "Autopilot" too eh?
Edit3: Minor formatting issue.