this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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Magazine dedicated to discussions about the kbin itself. Provide feedback, ask questions, suggest improvements, and engage in conversations related to the platform organization, policies, features, and community dynamics. ---- * Roadmap 2023 * m/kbinDevlog * m/kbinDesign
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Hopefully, that will stick. Also hopefully, our differing cultures won't end up in a lot of users being banned the moment they mention anything more eastern than Norway. I don't think it would typically be an issue, except that Russia and the surrounding area will remain a newsworthy topic for a great while.
I've been giggling over it a bit. You probably already saw, Blight, but I made one single comment in the latest .ml thread inquiring about this where I just frustratedly put forth defederating them back and building over here, rather than have over a hundred communities that only look like they exist from kbin's point of view. Which some helpful user copied over to a non-blocked instance for me, just in case. And then less than half an hour later, we were back. That comment and that comment alone is the ONLY thing I have ever gotten to federate over there, and of course it was the one where I was outwardly threatening them ๐
Whatever the reason, I'd just be happy to be able to participate.
Yeah, your original comment came up when I did my research immediately prior to leaving a note on a niche lemmy.ml community that I subscribe to. ...Which immediately federated over to the original instance, because I missed this developer comment and the other admin didn't reply to the thread you were quoted in until several hours later. Based on the timing of the older comment I don't think it has anything to do with your post, but you can pretend you didn't see this. ;)
In any event, it's dealt with. I think it reinforces the need for proper backchannels between the highest population ActivityPub instances, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the politics is acting as a barrier to this since both lemmy.ml and kbin.social are directly run by their respective software developers.
I've seen a few offhanded references to how kbin originated as an alternative to lemmy without the tankie implications, but I haven't found any links to posts from ernest himself that support this. By actions alone I would say that he strongly favors interoperability over politics, but who's to say what thoughts the developers have for each other. :)
Yeah, I figured I wasn't exactly gonna try to claim credit for it. I already have enough egg on my face without begging for more. Talk about perfection in timing, though. When I wrote that, I went back and forth between instances just to make sure. All relevant communities almost or totally empty. No other kbin comment in that thread crossing over. But mine....mine was the lucky one. Of course. Now I just look really mean for no reason.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see some fallout of inter-platform politics either. Though I've seen fairly little of the lemmy devs, what I have seen has tended towards being political and heavy-handed and while that's their right, it's also the reason such a bug on their side appeared fairly likely to be intentional. I would be depressed to see creators here still kneecapping each other like the companies do, but I wouldn't necessarily be shocked.
I've gotten the sense from Ernest's general behavior that he'd most likely opt for the good of the community and keep whatever personal problems he holds under wraps until forced. He's been shockingly sweet and humble, and goes out of his way to be transparent even over screw-ups he could just as easily keep quiet about.
This is a guy who had to be badgered to set up donations he clearly didn't expect to actually receive. He's squishy. I don't see him setting out to dethrone Lemmy specifically unless one or the other falls under an evil witch's curse and there are no remaining options. None of us really lose out by having competitors here and trying to murder lemmy would be far more trouble without much gain.
After pausing for a minute to dig up a half-remembered comment of his, it seems like there's truth to both: he respects them as developers, sees continued federation and input as healthy, and is polite enough to make only a very small nod to the differences that led to kbin. Maybe they won't be going out for beers with one another, but hopefully, they can keep each other more apprised if they're to work together at all effectively.
PS. This is apropos of nothing, but I've seen you around and never stopped to tell you. You have just the coolest username and I love it.
Thanks for the link! Your take is pretty much the same as mine. Nothing for me to expand on, you've pretty much nailed it.
lol! It's borrowed from the name of a character I made for Guild Wars 1. As the internet got bigger my older nicks became more hotly contested, but somehow this edgelordy one is never taken. :) The downside is that I can't easily feign ignorance about stupid things I've said in the past, but at least most of the evidence got nuked along with my entire Reddit history.
Goodness, I don't think I've even played an MMO since Runescape characters gained knees. I miss those days. Back when milk was delivered in little glass bottles by desaturated Andy Griffith types and everything made sense.
Accounts being somewhat disposable will probably be more encouraged here, what with navigating the risk of ever-present bans and a web of only semi-predictable federation. I'm sure a fourth of beehaw users have at least one alt, for instance, even if they do like the atmosphere.
I always find choosing a name to be by far the worst of it, though. I'm terrible with decisions and I've had to sleep on this more than once. The moment of realization? Taking all the bothersome symbols and 1337 out of my name means all anyone looking for me is going to get now are pictures of plants and moody excerpts from Poe's The Raven. Become unsearchable.
Funny thing - I experimented yesterday with posting from and to various instances and verified that the ONLY case that was problematic was from kbin to lemmy.ml, and posted about that from one of my lemmy accounts, then after thinking about it and poking around a bit more, I wrote a post from my kbin account to this very magazine arguing for defederating from lemmy.ml. I ended up deciding to not post it though, so I just copied it and saved it and was planning to wait a bit longer. So it was particularly fitting to see that someone else actually did broach the topic.
And if I'm honest, I think that defederating from them should still be on the table. I think there's no question that this was deliberate and malicious (and driven by petty jealousy of a not only competing but arguably superior piece of software), and it indicates that they shouldn't be trusted.
I would think that the most sensible approach would be to consider them on probation. If they can demonstrate that they actually can be trusted to act in good faith, fine. If, on the other hand, they pull another shady move like this one, defederation should be the immediate response.
Though Ernest likely wouldn't agree....
I think that would be a terrible idea, respectfully.
Many reddit refugees made communities on .ml. I did. I didn't know about all the tankie junk.
That would kneecap my small (but growing) community.
Perhaps a solution to all this would be a community migration tool or a "community' instance that holds them.
A community migration tool would 100% make sense for both Kbin and Lemmy, especially if there were an option to link the old, read-only community to the new location, redirect users to the new location from the old. That would also facilitate consolidating communities who want to consolidate.
If I signed up to a mag on one instance, that doesn't mean I want to sign up to it on a different instance.
Fair, so perhaps just a notification that goes out if an instance moves? Community with its settings and posts moves, but the users can be invited (or not, per their settings) to migrate too?
Nobody is talking about banning users "the moment they mention anything more eastern than Norway."
From a cursory search, I'd read this post from about a month ago asking for orientalism to be added to the rules as an example of racism/bigotry, on the basis that it was a regular and highly-bannable offense without being at all clear that it was an offense to a lot of newbies. Most people understand racism and xenophobia to mean race and country, and wouldn't necessarily qualify criticizing any country's government to fall under that, while the admins and some of the comments disagree.
This comment seems to be the only real notice either of the admins took of that request, and it was only to say, "Yep, western outlets reporting on the east are bigoted, what about the US?" Which is disappointingly unhelpful in clearing up what the rule actually covers beyond implying that it covers everything about the east coming out of the west, and that would be insane. Beyond that, they spent the majority of their time in the comments with everyone else, deleting stuff and fighting about the genocide thing instead of addressing the topic.
Checking the current rules, nothing beyond that has been done. Glancing at the modlog shows a recent article talking about the US supplying Ukraine with cluster bombs that has indeed been removed for bigotry, same as I expected they would be. Not locked for a shitty comment section, just removed. Really irate that I haven't got a screenshot like the thorough documentation Pineapple's, but it seems (I assume for traffick reasons) that the modlog is having trouble loading and keeps erroring out on me now.
Suffice to say, yes, there are those that appear to believe this through word and action, and they aren't clearing up what they do believe like they really should if they don't mean to be so hilariously heavy-handed with it. All Dessalines really accomplished was shutting down the conversation without explaining.