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Isn't religion really just an opinion? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by illectrility@sh.itjust.works to c/atheism@feddit.de

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So, recently I was talking to a friend and somehow we got to talking about religion and stuff. When I complained that religion is often put on a huge pedestal and that it's really just a glorified opinion and should be subject to the same criticism as any other opinion, they told me that that was a really hot take.

According to them, belief and religion is more than just an opinion since it's such a big part of people's lives. I countered that opinions are also big parts of people's lives and personalities. I mean, a huge chunk of your personality is based on your opinions, right?

We agreed to disagree but I kept thinking about it. I don't get why religion shouldn't just be treated like any other opinion just because people tend to cling to it. I get that ~~it~~ people are emotionally invested but that's not just the case with religion but other opinions too. I would appreciate your thoughts to help me understand better, is it really a hot take?

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[–] taladar@feddit.de 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

But what you believe isn't a choice. You can not consciously choose to believe anything, you can only be convinced to believe or convinced, coerced, forced,... to pretend to believe but your actual belief is not under your conscious control.

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

But what you believe isn’t a choice

Catholics believe it to be a choice because we believe in free will, among other things. And we choose to believe in free will as a gift from God.

At which point the argument becomes circular, therefore a choice. You can choose whatever now

your actual belief is not under your conscious control.

People seem to choose to join, or leave, our religion on a regular basis. So as a matter of practicality... I've seen people choose and change their beliefs.

As I explained to others on this subject: do you believe that others can manipulate your opinion? If so, you can use those same techniques to manipulate yourself in the mirror. That's your choice as well.

Even if you are a helpless sheep, you have the advantages of psychological research today to manipulate yourself into choosing your beliefs through simple psychology and mirrors.

[–] taladar@feddit.de 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Of course people's opinions and beliefs can change. You just can't decide to change them. You can obviously e.g. decide to learn more about a subject and as a result of that action your beliefs change but you can not just decide to change what you believe any more than you could decide to grow taller or to have your fingers fall off.

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You just can’t decide to change them.

You've never convinced someone else to change their opinion?

And have you never looked in the mirror to do the same to change your own opinion?

It's simple psychology. Not even religion. Arguments aren't always the most convincing, that's why we have other words (ex gaslighting) where psychological tricks are used to change someone's beliefs even outside of facts.

Just... Do that. To yourself. Done. There are numerous documented psychological tricks and operations you can do to people.

[–] illectrility@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Okay, let me try.

Yes, I have gotten myself to change my opinion. Many times, actually. I usually am confronted with an opinion I have by someone or something. Then I question the validity of that opinion, do some research, find out stuff I didn't know and form a new opinion based on the information I just acquired. That happens frequently.

What doesn't happen is this: "I think electric motors are more energy efficient. Hold on, no, never mind, now I think that combustion engines are more energy efficient." That's not how opinions or beliefs work.

The only way for you to form a new belief or opinion is via new knowledge and information. Why would your beliefs and opinions change, when the information they are based on doesn't?

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Catholics believe that fundamental issues of Faith are unprovable by logic.

You've made the choice not to believe in a matter of faith without proof. I have decided to believe despite no proof and a well understanding that there never will be proof.

That's really all there is too it.