this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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[–] JustZ@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Nah buddy, you're putting words in my mouth that I never said.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Then read the reports, because that is effectively what you're saying when you ignore them and also promote articles by people literally working for the US State Department

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

People working for it, but not the Secretary, not the Deputy Secretary. There are 80,000 people working for the State Department.

Although I think you will find if you actually look at what people have said, they are saying Israel is like apartheid, not that it is apartheid.

Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are not citizens of Israel. Why is it a crime against humanity for Israel to grant lesser rights to non citizens? Literally every other country does that, too. But the only time anyone calls it apartheid is when it involves Israel.

And it's never to argue about any specific policy that Israel has toward non-citizens, it's just to say "Israel is evil and Hamas is justified in targeting Israeli civilians." Hmmm.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

I have looked at what these organizations have said and why. Israel is guilty of the crime of Apartheid by the international standards of law. The reasons why are laid out. I've provided plenty of sources to show how exactly that is the case. You choose not to read the reports. You choose not to even watch the videos, which are much easier to digest. You have made the decision to be willfully ignorant. It's on you to take that next step. Everyone is susceptible to propaganda, that includes you, that includes me. That's why I look for independent reporting, and the works of multiple historians. That's why I look into what sources they use and why.

I've looked at the NATO documents and what they claim. They use nearly exclusively military Israeli sources, which have an extensive track record of lying and fabrication. Yet NATO documents take them at face value. Other documents they use can even show contradictions to what the NATO documents claim with those sources. Those are the reasons I don't consider it a credible source.

Yeah, it doesn't feel good to second guess your own biases. I had a difficult time finding out all the terrible shit the US has done and continues to do on foreign policy. I still did it, because I'd rather have the full story. Even if it means coming to terms that the country I'm a citizen of (US) has done abhorrent war crimes.

You genuinely want to believe Israel is a real democracy. That's why you're so against seriously considering these sources and reports on how Israel is guilty of Apartheid. Because you can't have a democracy and an Apartheid, if you have an Apartheid then you don't have a real democracy. There is nothing more I can do for you other than point you to books by new Historians on the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Like this guy?

Like John Spencer? Who gets his research reviewed and rwferenced and looked at by Bibi? You think that this guy is telling you the truth and isn't a propaganda arm of Israel???

If you discard Al Jazeera for being funded by Qatar, then be fair and discard John Spencer for being a literal propaganda pusher.